What Top Hat do I have?

[Phillip]

Hello All Top Hatters,

This is how it happened:

Illingworth & Primrose designed the Top Hat and the racing version, the Cloth Hat [or Cloth Cap] in 1962.

About 6 Mark 0's were built in England from 1962 to 1965. It is not known if any Cloth Hats were built.

From 1963 to 1965 about 18 Mark 0's were built in Melbourne by Mouldcraft.
An unknown number [my numbers say about 4] of amateur Mk 0's were built around Australia.
At least 2 Mouldcraft Mk 0's have sunk, one wrecked in Indonesia, 1 sunk at its mooring in Port Phillip that I know of.

In 1965 Baker brought the male mould from Mouldcraft and 'flopped' it off to a female mould.
From 1965 to 1971 Baker [Fiberglass Yacht (Sales)] built 57 Mk 1's.
1 was wrecked near Long Reef Sydney.

Only one amateur built fiberglass Top Hat was built in 1973. [ By Bear's father!]

In 1972 Formit brought the moulds from Geoff Baker.
During 1972 to 1976 Formit produced Mk 1's. [I think Topi has one.]

From late 1976 to 1980 Formit built the Mk 2.

From 1980 to 1985 Formit built the Mk 3. [The last Top Hat built in 1985, the only one left, was finally sold in 1990]

About 150 Top Hats were produced by Formit. This number has yet to be confirmed.
It was possible to have different windows [Mk 2 type] in the Mk 3.

In 1989 Formit built four 27 foot Top Hats.

The 30' and 32' so called Top Hats built by Format are NOT Top Hats and are from different designers.

Ok, so now you all have to go back and check your launch dates which cannot be before the earlier date
or much later than the end date that I have quoted for each Mark.
So I hope I do not see silly dates claimed for any of the Marks in the future!!!

[DESIREMK1]

Hi Phillip ,


Is there any way an owner of a Mk1 , such as us , may find out its Date of Manufacture , is there anywhere in the boat that would be stamped etc ?

it would also be interesting to find out , how many of each Mk1-3 , have survived the ravages of time ?



Brad
DESIREMK1

[storm petrel]

The Australian Boating magazine 1980 Stock Yacht Guide, states "a conservative estimate puts the number of Top Hats between 300 and 400" and interestingly ( I presume) Formit provided a photo of a three windowed Top Hat for the article on the 1980 Top Hat. The price for 1980 was $9,380 to lock-up stage and $14,780 to cruising stage (no aux.). Mind you, not sure about the quality of the Journalism in Australian Boating magazine in 1980 but it is the only reference to the number of Top Hats I have seen in press.

[Phillip]

The numbers game is complexing.

Baker built about 10 per year, for 6 years, where it took 2 men 4 weeks to build a Top Hat.

Formit built Top Hats for 13 years which if the sales were the same means about 130.
Now even Merv Howlett, Formit's salesman, could not tell me how many he sold and as
As I have not been able to talk to any other Formit people, I am unable to determine their rate of building.
Even if they built them at double Bakers rate for the whole 13 years that only mean about 260 Formit Top Hats.
But I don't think that happened, as the last Top Hat built sat in the yard for 5 years before being sold.
My figure of around 150 also compares with the riggers, who supplied the masts etc, numbers

The only way we will ever know is to count them. I've tried to get the info from the MSB NSW but the info,
while there, could not be extracted from their computor system.

As to build numbers on the yachts I am afraid that the practice at the time was to identify each yacht by the customers name.
Unfortunatly, while I've asked around, to my knowledge, those customer books no longer exist.

So, if you know anybody anybody who worked on Top Hats at Formit or knows where the customer books are please PM me.

[Phillip]

Just read the posts on the other thread.

What I haven't fully explored is the information that may be out there from the mast and sail makers.

So, if members could post in the members only section the name of their Top Hat [+ any previous if known]
plus the name of their mast and oldest sail maker.

Also include your MSB registration number as that may also give us a clue. Does anybody know when yachts had to be registered?

I'll put up a thread for this info.

[bearmcnally]

Hi Phil
As past conversations on this topic we do know Laurie Mitchell Sails made 115 sets of Top Hat sails and Brain Shilland of Shilland Sails who made the sails for all those Top Hats and 140 sets of Triton 24 sails .Last time I spoke to Brian he couldn't tell me much more ,and he doesn't think Laurie would remember much as he nearly 100 years old himself.I know Brian made a lot of Mk 2 and 3 sails and was making one just before Xmas for somebody on Pittwater. And yes I need to ask him how many ?

Bear

[storm petrel]

Just to add another tantalizing clue to the mystery, seven years ago I rang a gent from Wyong who had a beautiful refurbished Top Hat for sale on yacht hub. He told me he used to build them at Formit but I am afraid I did not record his name. I do remember the Top Hat sold in a couple of weeks. So there might be some Formit employees still about. I wonder if it might be worth another letter to Afloat Phil specifically asking for anyone who worked for Formit to give you a call?

[Phillip]

I think people should be aware that some Top Hats have had several sets of sails, especially if racing.
In fact some may have got a new set each year! So Bear's figure may be right but not relate to the number of Top Hats.

I did say the 'oldest' set of sails.

I'm thinking that I know of only one Top Hat that has lost its mast, so that may be a better way of getting numbers.

Mark, that was Merv Howletts [Formits Salesman] Top Hat, with whom I have had some conservations.
Unfortunatly he can't remeber how many [in fact may not have even counted them up].

Just another point:

Mark 1's were made by Baker [57] and Formit.

Mark 2 and 3 were ONLY made by Formit.

27 Footer were made by Formit [4].

I'll look into writing a letter to afloat this week.