My opinion: Top Hat 25 vs Endeavour 27

[bearmcnally]

So what do we have here ?

[Dolphin]

The Top Hat keel hung rudder has a serious flaw in it when compared to the Endeavour 26. Who said that????

Look at the bulk of the rudder and you'll see that it is low down. When fighting weather helm when the boat is heeled the rudder increases the heeling moment.
The Endeavour's is high up.

[Ianb]

The angled rudder of the TH increases the braking effect of weather helm. Do THs suffer a lot from weather helm? Perhaps a reef in the main, or a larger jib selection at the time would improve the balance.
Whatever the advantages of a naked rudder, a skeg mounted rudder is much better protected.

WRT the Hood 23, I know of one that went down off Sydney Heads- pooped and the water went straight over the cut-out transom and through into the cabin. Went down with loss of life. Sad. The TH outboard well is excellent cockpit drainage. Just have to have the lower washboard in place in heavy weather as suggested earlier.

[bearmcnally]

Hi Ianb

Are referring to the hood 23 "Montego Bay "

Cheers Bear

[Ianb]

Bear, I am not sure of the name of the boat. It was in the 1980s in a race off the Heads. One of the people who was lost had been to a meeting in my house only a week or two before. This experience put me off transom cut-outs for outboards. And dont get me going about modern designs with "sugar scoop" open transoms!

[storm petrel]

I know of another that sank off long reef in the 70's in similar circumstances, though the crew were picked up without drama and from memory the boat was refloated.

[Wild Rose]

Forgive this newbee but ..
Dose this mean all TH should have their OBwells open for drainage even if fitted with an IB?

Dave

[storm petrel]

It probably means you should have the lower washboard in if there is a chance getting a lot of green water in the cockpit. You should also have good cockpit drainage by whatever means.A lot of modern yachts have the transom open to let any water that gets into this area straight back out to where it belongs. I think Jamie Mitchell had this set up on the Top Hat he circumnavigated in but I could be wrong. If you have a cut out transom you must make sure water that flows onto the cockpit flows back out to sea and not into the boat.

I have an inboard and a fiberglass insert that fills the outboard cut out. Drainage is by several 2" dia drain holes that run into the gap around the insert. I always put a strong lower washboard in when I am sailing in a serious seaway.

[bearmcnally]

Ianb
I will never understand how some "weekend naval architect" can think a well proven blue water classic requires another 1.0m of mast height or a scoop on the transom believing he can make it go faster or more sea worthy . Then wonders why he has to sail with the tiller up under his chin or down around his ankles and then complains about weather helm.

I want to get my facts right on this first ?If think you are talking about the Hood 23 Montego Bay ? I think she floundered after the deck split and separated from the hull and she took a belly full of water .And while they were trying to tack her and sail home she slid off the back of a wave and sank stern first. I'll try and find more about this accident as it was very sad .
That was also when the law about harnesses having to have clips on both ends, as I believe as she sank the crew couldn't unclip themselves .
I think they also changed the JOG rules after this mishap to stop certain so called "JOG yachts " heading outside .

A trawler dragged up the wreck of the Farr 727 Waikikamukau a few years back, somewhere south of Bondi in her nets .

I've always said "some yachts and their owners should never be aloud outside ? "

Bear

[Dolphin]

I was in an RMYC Port Hacking race when we lost a Sonata 8 "Desire". I forget the date it was in about 1995.
We had just started a race, a strong SWer came up. Desire gybed and they got it under control. It broached a second time and because it had an offset companionway it took a gut full of water and sunk. That was on Osbourne Shoal in the middle of Bate Bay off Cronulla.
One boat Third Man tried to tow the boat but it sunk and was in danger of pulling the stern under, they had to cut it free.
The skipper Larki Missiris was left in the club house in his wet weather gear. Everything else was on the bottom.
THey put a diver down to try and salvage it but they couldn't find it.

Six months later and after a few big storms some divers found a piece of Fibreglass that was washing backwards and forwards in a pool of debris. Part of the name was on the fibreglass and it was Desire. They also found a credit card that belonged to Larki. That was in his wallet in his gear bag inside the boat. THe debris was powdered fibreglass. Thats all there was.
I was crewing on a boat called Kermit, as 23ft timber boat. Bob's, the skipper's, biggest problem was whether to keep the No 2 up, or change to the number 3. We kept the number 2 up.
The race was abandoned.