My opinion: Top Hat 25 vs Endeavour 27

[storm petrel]

We are referring to the low opening into the cabin from the cockpit on Top Hats/Compasses/Currawongs etc.. If the boat is seriously swamped or pooped, water will rush straight into the cabin if the lower washboard is not in. Most ocean going yachts have a raised edge (bridge deck) to about the height of the cockpit seats, to stop this from happening. I made a reinforce lower washboard for Storm Petrel that I clip into position when in a serious seaway to prevent this happening.

[Troppo]

Thank you for that, Storm Petrel. I was on the right track with it, now I know exactly.

I had been looking at cockpit drainage and thought it was lacking, so I often had the lowest washboard in just in case. Actually, the cockpit has great drainage, right into the cabin if not careful!

[storm petrel]

Yes a serious knockdown could sink the boat. Some of the Top Hats that have been used for ocean passages have had the lower part of the cabin entry glassed up to make them safer. I have been in some reasonable serious seas in Storm Petrel, but fortunately with someone at the helm have never had more than few gallons of seawater enter the cockpit. But I know how easily things can go pear shaped at sea.

Reading Top Hat - White Tie's story about her solo transTasman voyage is a real eye opener for any Hatter and I strongly recommend it for those who want to learn more about a Top Hat's seakeeping ability. I think it is on the site somewhere.

Cheers,
Mark

[bornfreee]

Hi Mark you are a gentleman as always there is a site i follow he has wrote two books which i highly recommend called simple sailor, he sails a 21ft corribee junk rigged, he has sailed as far as 80 degree north not because he is poor far from it but for the challange he has heaps of video on his woeful site and great info on jordon drougs here is a link to one of his web pages showing how he built in the bridge deck and built in the cockpit hope you enjoy it

http://thesimplesailor.com/Mingming.html

[storm petrel]

G'day Bill,

Thanks for this, I will follow this link up and see if I can get hold of his books.

Cheers,
Mark

[bearmcnally]

hello hatters

this is my opinion on Top Hat V's Endevour 27

Crap ! There is no comparison ? one is a full keel the other is a fin keel with a spade rudder . The Top Hat displaces 500lbs more than the Endevour 27 .The Top Hat doesn't have a bolt on keel and concrete ? concrete ! now that sounds like a f@#-up ? I think you will find the 27 is the 26 with a longer coachouse to excite those who wanted to cruise in one and to give it a bit more headroom . The change in the I.O.R rules killed the full keel design and that introduced the cut-away keel and the skeg hung rudder (The 1965 Admirals Cup ,Camille and Caprice of Huon are a good example of this Camille with her full keel Caprice with a cut away with a skeg hung rudder)The Mk1 Top Hat is almost perfect in design with it's key hole companionway and scoop/arch design stops that sneaky wave .The step in the coachouse is designed to deflect the wave away from the cockpit .That is why a coaming on the cockpit is so important in the design .The Mk 1 has flow through winch brackets the other Mk's have solid,which act a bit like a breakwater! The cockpit is a proper true blue water design, so when you do take a wave over the bow or some reason you decide to lay one on it's side it doesn't end up looking like an Olympic swimming pool (such are the modern cockpits) if you have a look at any classic designs up til the late 1970's you will find most had small cockpits ,including yachts like Ragamuffin and Salcia II .Swansons Duncansons Brolga33 even the Compass 28 have steps in the coachouses and it's there for a reason . I have sailed Hood 23's and even those are hard to fill with water,oh the J 24 easy !
You only have to look at the lines of the Top Hat and you can see there is no comparison with the Endevour 26
To be cont.....


Bear

[Troppo]

hello hatters

this is my opinion on Top Hat V's Endevour 27

Crap ! There is no comparison ? one is a full keel the other is a fin keel with a spade rudder . ...
You only have to look at the lines of the Top Hat and you can see there is no comparison with the Endevour 26
Bear

Bear, not everyone has the in-depth understanding that you have of the two types of boat. However, even as a newbie I have the right to an opinion and to share it. That's what forums are for. I am not saying I am an expert. When it comes to making a comparison, it is basically noting the similarities or dissimalarities between two things. I noted my opinions of my experiences of the two types of boat seeing as I have owned both. It is a comparison of two different boats.

[storm petrel]

Don't worry about Bear Troppo, we have all come to love him for the grumpy, old incalcitrant he is, and forgive him for his undying passion for the Mk1. (I think he claimed at one stage to love his Mk1, 7.62 times more than his first wife and most of us thought he had underestimated the constant of proportionality between the two!)

We were all interested to read your comparison and the fact you managed to awake Bill and Bear from their slumber is impressive for a new member of the forum.

Cheers,
Mark

(P.S. Many would say that well designed boats with an integrated keel and skeg hung rudder, like the S and S 34, are pretty handy sea boats, Bear. I don't think we should dismiss the last 50 yrs of boat development totally.)

[bearmcnally]

Hello Troppo
I was wasn't having a crack at you ? I liked what you posted and agree with what you said. I made a point that you can't compare a full keel with a fin keel .You also can 't compare a 1970- 80's fin keel to a 2000 design fin keel ?
Then you have people trying to compare a 25 footer to a 30 footer ! again when you talk about another 5 foot we are talking about different yacht behavior again ? Yet that extra feet can give a lot more choices in lay-out and comfort . I suppose you really cannot compare the two ?

Cheers Bear

Troppo it's nice to have a new member with an opinion it keeps the site alive

Now is it the blue pill or the white one today ?

[bearmcnally]

Hello Mark
The integrated keel / skeg hung rudder are different again to the fin keel . Most had trim tabs fitted also . That's the point I'm trying to make ?
Blasted pills ! Bear