MK1, MK2, MK3

[Levi]

Hi all just wanted to know your thoughts is there any difference in strength or are all the marks capable round the world sailing boats? I'm going to buy one soon and plan to cruise the east coast than over to asia. Would be great to hear from all experienced Top hat owners. I plan to keep my boat very simple as the less i have the less that can break. I was thinking of getting a Compass 28 a nice bloke showed me his today it was a great boat! but i think i will be just as comfortable on a top hat (i hope still yet to find one to look at) and my wallet will like it a lot more as well.

Thanks

[storm petrel]

All are overbuilt but the Baker built Mk1s are reputably the strongest built hulls. But if you are going blue water you need to ensure the whole boat is well set up to do this. I suspect the hull strength would not be an issue with any of the Mks, provided they are well rigged and well set up with safeties, strengthened windows, good sails, etc. Indeed I suspect the crew are more likely to fail than the boat. But I guess this is the case for any pocket cruising yacht at sea. I suggest you read some of the material on the net from the Simple Sailor, Roger Taylor, who knows more than just about anyone about how to set up a small yacht for blue water sailing.

If you have not already done so, I also suggest that you spend some time at sea in a small yacht in rough windy conditions before even thinking about crossing oceans in one.

As to a compass, I find that my Top Hat can keep pace with them in flat water and in a seaway.

Cheers,

Mark
Storm Petrel Mk11

[Ianb]

The Compass 28 seems to spend its extra length on overhangs, and I agree that the Top Hat has comparable interior space. That makes the Top Hat much better value. Plus things like costs for moorings, slipping, etc are often based on length, and you would typically be paying more for running costs.

[Troppo]

My Mk2 seems to have more storage space than the Endeavour 27 I once had. With thought, there is plenty of space for solo cruising. The tiller in my Tophat is further forward than in the E27 so the cockpit seems smaller, especially with the outboard in the well. In some very rough weather I found steering the Tophat to take more effort on tiller than with the E27 but in the Tophat being able to hold onto the cabin roof and hide behind the companionway hatch gave a very protected spot while steering.

In theory, the smaller the boat the more it moves around on the waves. Don't know if in practice there is much difference in comfort between a Tophat and a Compass 28, however, I am not qualified to say as have not been out in a Compass 28.

One thing I like about the Tophat compared to a bigger boat is that it can use a lighter anchor and so is easier for hauling in and yet holds fine [When I say lighter I don't mean an undersized one but a 'right' sized one compared to a 'right' size one for a bigger boat]. Windchaser has yet to drag on anchor even with the storms and floods here in Rockhampton when she has been anchored rather than on a mooring. Plenty of other boats have dragged. So there are some advantages with having a Tophat even if smaller than other boats like the Compass 28.

Have fun with ya exploring boat options.

Louis

[Phillip]

Levi,

All Marks are Ok, but you should ensure that the one you buy had the hull and deck joined in the factory. This only applies to Mark 2 & 3's.

With the age of our yachts now around the 40 years there have been some problems with the hull to deck join on a very small number of boats.
These few were poorly joined by their owners, but if that join passes as OK, then there is really little difference between any of the Marks.
You should request your surveyor to inspect the hull deck join.

Unless you own a beautiful Mark 1 like I do! All factory built too.

[Ianm]

My wife and I circumnavigated in a Top Hat 1974 – 1977. We had no experience which prompted any concern about hull strength.

Our elder son, Jamie, did a world circumnavigation in a Baker Mk1, “Possibilities” 2000-2010. This included 3 Atlantic crossings.

Before he started on the circumnavigation, he tried to sail to New Caledonia. After a few days slamming to windward, the hull started to leak in the vicinity of the starboard stringer which supported the V berth. He sailed downwind to Lord Howe. The hull was cracked along the stringer. Someone on the island patched it up and he and his crew set off for Pittwater. The patch fell off two days out of Lord Howe and they pumped the rest of the way. In Pittwater, he got a shipwright to do a proper repair. I recall that the repair was 1.2m long. I have heard anecdotes of other Top Hats failing at the same location.

Jamie then spent a few days glassing in 50mm foam square stringers and frames at 500mm centres, from the keyhole hatch to the anchor locker bulkhead. He also layered more glass onto the hull between the foam.

He was t-boned by a fishing boat off Brazil. The bows of the fishing boat came in to the cabin side, the lower end of the gash was 100mm above the water line. Also off Brazil, a crew member hit a rock which made a small hole in the hull.

Jamie’s hull reinforcing may well have what kept the boat afloat.

On “Possibilities”, the cabin top has become quite weak. There are some areas that I have imagined sticking on “No Step” aircraft signs.

I inspected a few Top Hats when my younger son was searching for a boat. One of those was so lightly constructed that I could deform the hull outwards with my hand, below the waterline. I recall that it was a Mk2.

My tuppence worth:
Top Hats are old boats. The Mk 2 and Mk 3 seem to have been rather variable in quality. Fibreglass strength decreases over time, from many factors. In general, Top Hats will probably outlast most other small yachts of the same vintage. But they will not last for ever, and probably are becoming more fragile than their owners like to imagine.
On the bright side, adding some hull reinforcement from the inside is not a very big job, at least for those boats without an interior F/G liner. The strength of the reinforced hull could easily be made stronger than the original when new.

Ian

[Troppo]

Hi Ian, great to read of your experiences. You and your wife (and son in his TH) have certainly done some miles in a Top Hat, wow, totally amazing.

cheers

Louis
Troppo

[storm petrel]

Great to have your input Ian.

I agree that fibreglass gets more fragile with age. I have been a surfer for 50 years and have still got some old boards from the 60's that I have now consigned to displays on my walls because, while they are still immensely strong, the glass on them shatters quite easily with a hard knock.

You might be interested to know that at the last Top Hat get together on Lake Macquarie (last Jan?) three of the participating Top Hats went through the Swansea bridge with your Brolga when we were heading for our home ports. Your Brolga seemed to revel in the conditions and we soon lost sight of you as we all headed South.

If you have a minute, I would love the know how the Brolga compares to your old Phantom 32?

Kind regards,
Mark
Storm Petrel (Pretty Beach)

[Ianm]

Yes, I certainly noticed the three THs on January 10. I thought of waving, shouting and VHF, but did nothing.

Brolga 33 Osprey-A v Phantom 32 Realitas

Osprey sails better than Realitas. She comes up to speed with less sail area than Realitas, is better balanced and less rudder is required. Windward performance is much superior. She is more comfortable at sea, probably due to less beam, greater displacement and deeper hull. The cockpit is also more comfortable. You can sit and brace yourself with feet on the opposite seat, whereas the Realitas cockpit was too wide. On Realitas, there was a foothold ridge running down the middle of the cockpit floor, but this was comfortable for small angles of heel only.

Realitas had more interior volume, due to wider beam and less fine bows. Her draft is considerably less than Osprey.

Both boats had tiller steering. Realitas’ weather helm was too bad to live with. I did not want to put on wheel steering because of cost and complication. I designed some rudder balance and bolted it onto the rudder below the lower rudder pintle. This balance greatly reduced the weather helm.

The above sounds a bit dismissive of Realitas. But we owned her for 18 years and sailed her as far as Tas, Lizard I. and NZ. The layout included two settee berths and two pilot berths, all in the middle of the boat, which was a very comfortable arrangement at sea for two adults and two children/teenagers.

Cheers,

Ian

[storm petrel]

Thanks Ian, I had been thinking about updating to a bigger boat before I retire (5yrs away) and had the Phantom on my short list. I think I might be better off looking for a Brolga, Magpie or S and S 34, but I am also tempted to keep my little Top Hat because it is so cheap to maintain and easy to sail.

Cheers,
Mark