Another Wet Weekend Discussion

[bearmcnally]

The better looking Top Hat ? Mk 1

Why the change ? The long coach house was to up date the look of the Top Hat in other words "Modernize it " Why ? the introduction of the fin keel yacht ! the Triton 24 . This new production "family yacht " was one of the reasons .Full headroom ,dinette and inclosed toilet . My sailmaker who made the Top Hat sails 110 sets and 140 sets of Triton 24 sails under L J Mitchells back in the 1970's and 80's ,this might help back up this discussion ?
Another reason was the introduction of other "Production Yachts ' like East Coast ,Compass, Duncanson and Swanson Brothers who produced faster,larger and more modern designs and different sizes and affordable .The Owner of the Top Hat mould tried to compete with the 27 and the 31 ( Halvorsen, Morson & Gowland Pty ) .

The Mk 1 is still the classic production one .

Cheers Bear

[storm petrel]

But strangley they still sold a lot more Mk2's and Mk3's than Mk1's in spite of the competition from other yacht designs. I think they were all overbuilt - the Baker yachts being the most overbuilt. Hopefully the rain will stop and we will just agree that all Top Hats are great little yachts, no matter the Mk.

Looking forward to a sail this week,
Mark

[bearmcnally]

I suppose the Mk1 was around for 4 years and the Mk 2 and Mk 3 ,same coachouse for 13 years plus ? Wouldn't you think there would be more than the other ? Maybe that is why the Mk 1 's are hard to find ?
It would have been interesting if the Mk 1 coachouse was available still when the Mk 2 came out ?

regards Bear

[storm petrel]

Well maybe you have a point Bear. To my mind the most amazing thing is that the hull shape remained essentially unchanged for the entire production run. As to the the cabin top, it is a matter of aesthetics and personal taste. The more traditional among us (Including me I must confess) prefer the Mk1 shape because it reminds us of the cabins on the classic timber boats of the 50s and 60s.

Still raining here........

[Gramps]

I think market competition among the Aussie builders prompted the change, but in those days boats like the East Coast 31 were still out of reach for Joe Average and a twenty five footer was still regarded as a good sized boat even for a family of four or even five with three kids sleeping in the forpeak. Enclosed heads and dinettes appealed to the women, and so they became standard too. The Triton had the internal volume, but I did not like the fact that it lacked a proper sidedeck for going forward because of the sloping cabin top. The Columbia 27 did not have a sidedeck at all, you went forward over the cabin top. An interesting comparison with the Top Hat at that time for those with a little more money was the very popular Clansman. That retained the traditional styling but got a lot into 30 feet down below. It fell down with the side deck which was so narrow that you caught the heel of your shoe on any obstruction when going forward in a hurry. When I wanted to step up from my 21 foot Swanson Dart with a cuddy to a 25 footer, the Top Hat was my choice because you also get a lot down below for a 25 footer - good length bunks and full headroom - and I dropped in to talk about Top Hats when they were still working from Narrabeen. Mike Garrett showed me the drawings for the new style cabin they were considering introducing when I was there, suggesting that there were manufacturing advantages in the simplicity of the moulds as well as attracting new buyers.
It is very much a personal choice and I came away convinced that the new style lacked just that - style. The dinette is an asset, and my 1971 version Mark I does not have one, but Bear and Mr. Greg have seen my dinette arrangement, a sliding table that lives under the cockpit floor and extends far enough to sit one on each side on the settee berth. It only takes up space while it is in use leaving me with an unobstructed forepeak, two setee berths AND two cockpit lockers for most of the time. Sweet perfection - at least in my eyes!

Sean
AZZURA
Classic Mark I

[bearmcnally]

Well hello Gramps ,
The only turn off the Clansman had was the lack in beam for a 30 footer and the dating look ? I agree the cost of some 30 footers $45.000 plus for a basic yacht wasn't cheap. My Father liked the East Coast 31 but could not but a hull and deck only, as Bruce Fairlie would only sell the completed yacht .This was to stop poorly amateur built yachts from entering the used yacht market later .I know my Father looked at many yachts around that 30 foot range and I think cost was a big factor in it . That is why we built the Swanson 32 "Jia " as a hull and coachouse and added the deck etc .It also accommodated the growing family which the Top Hat couldn't .
I still think the Top Hat is good value for money and affordable for the first timers and fantastic for the die hards !

Cheers Bear

[Troppo]

With the differences in the coach roof, can anyone do some line drawings to show dumbos like me what the differences were. : )

troppo

[Tales]

John,

The coachhouse on the Mk1 Australian fibreglass Top Hat was also "to up date the look of the Top Hat in other words "Modernize it "!

It's shape was designed by Geoff and Norm Baker and is nothing like the original Top Hat as you well know!

Cheers,

Tom

[bearmcnally]

Tom
The timber Top Hat stands alone no comparison to the Mk 1 '........................................................let alone the Mk 2 And 3
I love the look of the timber Top Hat ,That's why I built my model and have the poster on my wall . Jilpanger was the first trunk coachouse it was built that way not to modernize the look of the Top Hat but to have full headroom forward of the mast which the timber and Mk 1 lack The timber Top Hat had that cabin design not so much for looks it was designed like that to give the crew room to move around and the cabin for a bit of protection from spray etc As we all know the Top Hat was designed and built as a JOG boat and nothing else. Like I said before ,designs change and the Top Hat would no longer rate as a JOG boat so it became a family/cruising yacht .So the cabin had to change to make it more family friendly above and below deck .So say hello to the Mk 1 ?


Kindest regards
BEAR

[Gramps]

Hi Bear,
I agree that at the Clansman was too narrow in the beam for 30 feet and that contributed to the narrow side decks. Another point you made previously about the sheet winch mounting on the Mark I Top Hat was demonstrated in the Clansman when her rail went under. The water surged along the side deck as far as the moulded winch mounting pod and gave the crew a cold shower! However, Fairlie built a nice boat and, as you said, would not sell hulls and decks for owner construction. Years later I had a chance to buy an East Coast and went up to Gosford to see them in the moulds and during fit out. He asked me the name of the boat I was viewing and told me it was okay to buy, but he had sold a hull and deck to someone and it was the biggest mistake he ever made. 'That is NOT and East Coast 31" he said. I did buy the boat and had it for many years. It had more interior room than other half tonners, helped by the flush deck and ports in the hull and it was a great all rounder in wind and sea conditions.

I always liked flush foredeck boats, like the short cabin versions of the Swansons, and so I like the lines of the original Top Hat too. Here is a photo to supplement your model for those who are not familiar with the original.

Sean
AZZURA