Sailing in 20 knts plus

[bearmcnally]

Sailing in winds from 10 knots to 13 knots you can make most yachts point and sail ,I call it comfort sailing ? No 25 footer will point in 20 knots of wind without having to work the yacht ? Have a look at a skiff racing , gear on ,lift ! off ,knock bear away! and on it goes ,bloody hard work ? Top Hats are designed as a headsail driven yacht .Northshore yachts for example are mainsail driven .When you start talking about strong wind sailing ,25 knts of wind is no seabreeze for a 25 footer, in fact it's starting to get up there for most yachts. In these winds you have to sail very differently to 18 knts and again in 15 knts of wind.Sail combination and weight distribution is important and it doesn't matter whether it's a skiff or a 50 footer.
Most full keel yachts will sail better with a reef in the mainsail ,and change the headsail combination around to suit the conditions you want to sail in .Having a furler makes this a very easy combination to change as the wind conditions change.

Di you have the right idea,but I like my grapes out of a bottle ?

Cheers Bear

[Gramps]

Furlers make life easy Bear, but when it somes to reducing sail, I don't like them at all. A partly furled headsail never sets as nicely - in my opinion - as it not only interefes with the cut, there is a great roll of cloth interfering with the airflow over the luff. Having said that, it does come in handy when you are sailing back onto a mooring in any kind of a breeze because you can furl it up as you are coming into the wind and dash forward to pick up the mooring without fighting off the flooging sail at the same time.

I also dislike having to drop the sail from a furler and having to control the loose fabric as the breeze catches it and blows it over the side. Okay, I am twice the age of my boat and admit to being old fashioned too. I think hanks have a lot going for them. It is easier to attach the sail to the headstay without trying to feed it up the foil and hoist at the same time. When it comes down it is secured for the full length of the luff, easy to control as you lay the foot out along the deck and easy to roll up neatly to put in the sail bag.

However, when I bought Azzura back from her temporary owner, she came with a furler and now I have to live with it.

The KISS principle works best for singlehanders and every time for me. Keep It Simple Sailor!

Sean
AZZURA

[bearmcnally]

Hellooo Gramps Happy New Year ,Aussie Day , Easter etc etc

My New Year's resolution was to be nice but what the heck ? I totally agree I'm a hank man ! old fashioned like you ....., You just can't get the sail shape like a hank sail .I agree once you start to furl a sail you lose the shape and you still have all that weight up top where you don't want it . Some sailmakers put padding in their furlers to give them shape .I suppose it a bit like a padded bra they look good until ......?
It is a great feeling being able to select a headsail from the wardrobe and unfold it ,clip it onto the forestay ,wind it up and watch it set . Much more exciting than pulling a string and watching it roll out like a sunshade !Another benefit of having a sail wardrobe is that they make great cushions to lounge on .

Bear.. MK 1 hank sails

[Jeremy]

Tough call...

Makes reducing sail easy... But the trade off is the horrendous sail shape when furled effectively resulting in loss of pointing ability and speed (as mentioned). You also have to ensure your car positions are correct when reducing sail, this takes some preparation but is easily sorted once familiar.

I think I will be getting a furler, eventually... They are just too easy, pull the sheet and off you go.

Jeremy

[Dolphin]

Well smother me in honey and lead me to the anthills Batman.
Who wouldn't possibly want a furler! Next thing you'll be using is square rigs and lateen sails.
All I do is use the furler. On Lake Mac its standard dress for a boat to sail under a genoa on a furler, the main in its sail cover and a dinghy towed behind. The ease and convenience of the furler is great.

I have a padded furler which allows it to keep its shape when furled from a No2 to a No 3. Furling any more and I agree the shape is bad. Its looks like a garbage bag on a broomstick.

You can easily change the sail and you never have to venture up to the foredeck (read adventure land) and when sailing single handed that is a great safety feature. Changing sails is harder but you don't have to change them often. I have a storm sail with luff ties that can go over the furled no2. It was a requirement for Cat 3 racing. The reason for it is that a spinnaker pole can hit the furler section and jam the sail in its track. Simply furl the sail and put the storm sail over the top.

Get a furler ! For us old blokes its a godsend.

Don't worry about trying to get the old girl to point, she just wont do it. They need deep mains to get the drive and the lowers stop the sail from sheeting in close. Get a GPS plot of the track and you can see clearly that the tacking angle is poor. Besides you should only be using it for cruising and as everyone knows no gentleman EVER sails to windward.

[Tales]

Guess I'm no gentleman then!
Best GPS plot I can get is about 100degrees tacking angle, 90 if I pick the wind shifts.
It is really important to keep it upright as the TopHat keel is not deep and heeled over they just go sideways
In bigger seas it is difficult to keep wind in the sails with the changing angles and wind loss in the trough. John (Bear) was right when he said it requires a different style.
I find the third reef and storm jib (hanked on) works well in over 25knots but how far I can go to windward depends on the size and type of waves.
Cheers,
Tom

[bearmcnally]

HANKS ARE IN 2013 !

[storm petrel]

I actually like beating to windward sometimes and I agree with Tom that it takes a lot of work and is very tiring but you can get a Top Hat to claw forward in 20+ knots, albeit slowly. I also agree that hanked on headsails give the best performance but the convenience of the furler for cruising makes it hard to go past.

At the risk of hijacking the thread, what is the consensus on the best heeling angle to maximise speed for a well set up Top Hat? I know it depends on sea state, breeze and sail trim but let's say close hauled in 15 knots in 'smooth' water. The S and S 34 guys say 20 degrees is the most efficient angle for their hulls. What would you sail your Top Hat at?

[Dolphin]

Mark,
I sailed on Sydney Harbour on a Mk1 names Kalinda and owned by Reg. He had raced it for 20 years with Sydney Amatuers. He said the fastest speed was to get the gunnel just above the water. It then sails like a spoon, and has increased waterline length. Once you go past the gunnel on the water there is too much drag.

[storm petrel]

Thanks Greg, this has been my experience also. Once the gunwales are in continually it slows down a little and starts to slip sideways.