Water coming in from bilge outlet?

[Troppo]

In my 380 nm adventure, I had a heart-stopper one day when I ducked down from the cockpit into the cabin to find water starting to slosh around on the floor. It was salt, so not one of my water containers cracked and draining into the bilge. It was the bilge overfilling. Oh crap!

When I bought Windchaser I tested the one and only bilge pump, a manual one, and it leaked so I got a new one. Now I popped up and down from the cockpit making sure I was not running into anything and pumped her out. I wondered where the water was coming from and I was thinking depending on how fast she was filling just where I could get to.

After being emptied, she did not seem to be filling up and I could not find anywhere the water was coming in. I continued on.

Late afternoon I found water on the floor again. At the time I was motoring hard against wind-against-tide, sharp waves but not too bad. The location was not good. The mouth of the Fitzroy River with its massive mudbanks and crocs. It felt like I was a long way from anywhere. Drying out on a mudbank somewhere for the night so I did not sink was not appealing, somehow.

Again after I pumped her out, there was no obvious water coming in or sign of where it came from.

Now that I have the boat moored, I am wondering if the way the chop was running caused water to come back through the bilge pump pipe. I did notice a little water entering the drain holes at the back of the cockpit against the outboard motor well. If water can get up that high then it can get in the bilge pump hose.

What do ya reckon? Have you ever had this trouble? What do you suggest?

Pic showing starboard quarter berth and bilge pump hose going back to the outboard well.

[Dolphin]

Easy fixed my Troppo!
You don't have a syphon breaker and every time the boat pitches it looks as though you are scooping a little water into the bilge pump outlet and that runs down intothe bilge.
TO fix it you can extend the pipe in a B I G loop up the back of the transom inside the boat. That makes it harder for water to run down the pipe as it has to get to the height of the cockpit combing first and water wont run uphill.

OR you can put a rubber flap over the outlet to act as a foot valve to stop water coming back into the pipe but that wont be as effective as the loop as it relies on a good seal. Second is to install a syphom breaker in the top of the loop of extended hose, That is a simple one way valve that lets air into the hose when it is under suction and seals shut when the hose is full. These some time leak and being in the very aft section of the boat it will be hard to check.

I'd recommend just putting a high loop of hose in the transom and see how it goes. Fix the top of the hose with a clamp or tie it off to say the U bolts that hold the backstay.

Don't use the bilge pump when the boat is at speed or heeling as you will syphon water back through the pump. That is equivalent to a 3/4 inch hole in your boat.

I had a similar problem on Felicite, I was tied up to a wharf at Toronto Lake Macquarie. The boat was in rough water in a southerly and the exbaust pipe was scooping water up and filling the pipe and muffler and eventually went through the engine. In the morning I went to move the boat and saw water running out of the air cleaner and filling up the bilge.
The engine started VERY slowly and eventually shot all the water out of the exhaust pipe. I was lucky I didn't get a hydraulic lock.
In this case, the problem was, there is a stainless steel inverted U bend in the pipe and over years that had fallen over so there was nothing to stop the water running back to the bilge.

For what its worth. I hope it helps.

[Oberon11]

Well said Greg

[Troppo]

. . . and the exbaust pipe was scooping water up and filling the pipe and muffler and eventually went through the engine. In the morning I went to move the boat and saw water running out of the air cleaner and filling up the bilge.
The engine started VERY slowly and eventually shot all the water out of the exhaust pipe. I was lucky I didn't get a hydraulic lock.
In this case, the problem was, there is a stainless steel inverted U bend in the pipe and over years that had fallen over so there was nothing to stop the water running back to the bilge.

Now that made me gasp! I think I would have needed a heart-starter after seeing water coming out the air cleaner.

I follow what you are saying with a remedy. Thank you Greg.

[Dolphin]

Thanks John,
I'm just trying to maintain the highlevel of customer satisfaction on this site. I just sit here and wait to answer questions.
Not really, I just spent 3 days on the lake. REALLY cold but beautiful nights at PT Wollestoncroft. Might put up another post in Top hat voyages with pics.

PS, Mr Troppo, the loop may not have to go as high as the combing, just above the cruising water level will be enough to stop the water pumping back into the boat. Don't pump the bilge when the boat is sailing or you will syphon back into the bilge. If the loop is too high the pump will work harder to get over that "head".

Hope it helps.

[Dolphin]

Mr Troppo,
Not to make too big a point of it, I also found out that if the air cleaner gets wet (Soaked) it is impossible to suck air through it and the diesel wont start. It sounds like it has no compression. I guess its like "Waterboarding" your engine.
Also the engine oil had water in it. I proved this by lighting the stove and getting the dipstick and dripping a few drops of oil on the burner. If it sizzles it has water in it. If it just smokes it is pure oil.

Another useless tip from the Top Hat website!

PS thanks for including the picture it makes it a lot clearer explaining the problem.

What is you name?

Greg.

[Troppo]

I appreciate your info Greg. At the moment Windchaser is inspiring an endless list of questions about fixing stuff. Things that affect seaworthiness are top of the list but there are plenty more. I'm gunna put some electric bilge pumps in but I also want to have an effective manual one. And no water coming back in. : )

cheers
Louis

[Dolphin]

Good one Louis,
You should have a manual one before the electric one. The manual one will of course have valves in it that will stop the water coming in.
If you put one in, make sure you can operate it easily from the cockpit or cabin. The one installed in Feleicite was in a corner of the cockpit locker that had to have the cockpit locker open to operate it. Really good idea in a heavy sea, I don't think. I fitted an extension to the handle through the bulkhead so you can operate it in the cabin. Got us through the safety inspection for racing.

PS re Bear he hasn't taken his medication yet. The nurses are holding him down now, he'll be better after a good lie down. Take him with grain of salt. We all appreciate everyones opinion.
Greg.

[Troppo]

Hmmm, I am starting to think that for ease of access, maybe I should put a manual pump in the cockpit on the starboard side. Since I am gunna be moving hoses around to fix the current set up, perhaps doing that extra work and moving the pump to make sure it really is easy to get to if in trouble might be worth while.

Is it better to have the manual bilge pump easy to access in the cockpit or in the cabin? Your thoughts?

[Dolphin]

I would recommend, that if you have the choice, to put it where you can easily reach it while sailing, so somewhere handy in the cockpit is the answer. Even if you have another person on board they may be incapacitated and not able to help so you may be effectively single handing.
On Felicite the manual bilge pump outlet is just under the deck combing on the port side. and the pickup is at the back of the bilge.
The electric bilge pump is mounted at the front of the bilge and the outlet is just above water level on the Stbd side, just below the diesel exhaust pipe.

For what its worth!