Battery installation

[Tales]

I may be looking at shifting the battery on Tales and perhaps fitting a second one.

The current battery position is where you would put your feet if you were sitting in the enclosed head (if you had one!)

Would love to know where others have fitted their batteries (especially MkII and III).

Tom

[Dolphin]

G'Day Tom,
Felicite's battery (Mk 3) is under the fwd end of the quarter berth. There are 2 batteries in a ply wood box that has been flowcoated. It has a 5/16th bolt through the side of the engine comp. to stop it sliding around. The battery switch is on the front side of the stbd quarter berth about the spot where a person facing forward at the table would have their left calf muscle. Its a very short run of cable to the engine.
Under the box is a flat false floor that takes the weight of the batteries. I just use two normal car batteries.

Hope it helps, Greg.

[Shaun]

Howdy,
Blue Moon's battery is in the same place as Felicite's, seems like the logical place....close to start the inboard & quite accessible, it is also sitting on a false floor with just a standard car battery hold down, I would like to house the battery in one of those plastic battery box's, as at present im reluctant to put anything else in the same locker in case it bounces around & short's or damages the battery or vise-versa. the same locker houses the first diesel filter.
I have been impressed with Alco's price & advice on engine starting batteries.
Im also looking to add a (solar charged)second battery as a house battery to run st2000, LED nav & cabin lights & radio, should the house battery be a deep cycle one?
cheers
shaun

[Swift]

Hi

My philosophy with batteries used to be to buy the cheapest car batteries I could find and throw them away after a couple of years. Low investment and low risk. Last year the larger one of my two batteries failed when a solar panel shorted due to water ingress. So after repairing the solar panel I changed strategy and bought a quality sealed AGM battery .

One of the reasons I went with an AGM is that my previous main battery was a 30 AH and I wanted to upgrade to a 100 AH. Conventional flooded cell batteries have a self discharge rate of between 8% and 40% per month. This translates into a loss of between 0.6 - 3 Amp hours per week. Not too much to worry about but a bigger 100AH battery would mean a self discharge loss of between 2 AH and 10AH per week. So, my small solar panel would use more power to keep up with the self discharge and have less left to replace weekend usage. Paradoxically a bigger battery would mean less available power! By contrast AGM batteries have a self discharge rate of between 1% and 3% per month which is negligible. So it was cheaper for me to spend more money on a higher quality battery and avoid having to up-size my solar panel!

BTW as confirmation of the low self discharge rate, I bough the AGM from Whitworths annual Boat Show sale back in August last year before I was ready to install it. It sat on my garage floor for 6 months. After this period without use a normal car battery would probably be dead flat but the AGM was reading fully charged. The reason for the delay was that I had to find more space for the bigger battery. The AGM is now fixed lengthways on a shelf in the rear of the keel, it is a very close fit, the smaller car battery is mounted sideways and slightly forward of the AGM. I can't easily get to the AGM but that does not matter because it requires no maintenance. To top up the water in the car battery I only have to lift the floor panel in the storage area under the cockpit. This new position for the batteries gets them out of the way and also locates the weight down low. The top of the batteries are above the level of the cabin sole so they won't be shorted by water up to that level. If water rises much above the cabin sole - well I don't think the first thing on my mind will be batteries.

This positioning of batteries only works with boats with outboards so score one for us outboard fans. In defence of inboards a good alternator provides more charging flexibility and therefore the battery type is less critical. Golf cart batteries would be a good option for house use, although if you don't use your motor much AGM's may be better because when you do use your motor they can absorb the large charges prodced by alterantors and therfore the engine does not need to be run for as long a period as with conventional flooded cell batteries, deep cycle or not.

Swifts AGM is charged with a regulated 8W flexible solar panel and the back up car battery is charged by an unregulated rigid 5 w solar panel. So far I have been really happy with this arrangement for weekend use including heavy use of an ST 2000 auto and an electric toilet. The regulator always shows a fully charged battery when I get back to the boat and so far I have not had to use the back up battery. However I have been pondering what to do for longer trips. Really long term voyaging is simple, you just have to go with a large solar panels, but I don't have plans for that, I just want to be able to spend a week or two on the boat without having to watch every amp used. It seems silly to go to the trouble and expense of a big solar panel only to have it pumping out all those wasted amps for the other 50 weeks of the year.

So if your trapped in some port for a while waiting out the bad weather and the solar panels are producing bugger all what do you do? Cheap $100 generators have been available for some time but the problem has always been matching them with a good battery charger which might be more than 5 times the price of the generator. However when I was in Bias last weekend I noted that they have a special on 15 Amp 5 stage battery chargers for only $100. (Also available at Jaycar) My very reliable old 700 W GMC generator will easily run a 15 Amp charger, or a 25 Amp charger would be even better if I could find one at the right price.

While on the subject of generators I see that Bunnings are now selling a 700 W lightweight briefcase style inverter generators for something over $300. They look like a copy of a Honda which sells for more than $1000. They make my old GMC look like a piece of crap and unlike the dirty output of the GMC they are claimed to produce a steady 240v sine wave that will directly run sensitive equipment such as TV's and computers.

Anyway I am happy with the AGM battery and the only question that is yet to be answered is if the service life will live up to what is claimed. I hope that question takes a long time to answer.

Cheers Keith

[Phillip]

Evening All,

My batteries are mounted under the cockpit and to the rear of my inboard. They sit on a timber platform, which is fibreglassed in, and to which they are held down with the appropriate battery ties. There is just enough room to get them out.

The engine starting battery is a sealed Alco MF 90D26L and the house battery is a sealed Ritar AGM RA12-120SD. I think I have deciphered the battery codes correctly. As I have mentioned, I replaced these two batteries in Mooloolaba after 8 years of good service. They are trickle charged with a 20 watt solar panel, each battery having its own regulator [most important!]. I found that for casual use they were adequate and I have never lacked for battery power.

But, now that I am cruising and using them every day not all is well. The engine starter battery is fine and usually recharges within about 30 minutes after starting the engine. Today when I put the charger on it was already fully charged.

The house battery is another story and at this stage I have found that using a laptop computer will over a week, seriously discharge the battery. I have just purchased a 21amp smart charger, which today took 5 hours to bring the house battery back to full charge.

When I refitted Seaka I redid the wiring so there are no problems there. I also have only LED lighting and there is only the VHF radio and intermittently the FM/AM radio and the electric toilet with high demands. Over the next couple of weeks I will see if the battery can hold up without the use of the LAPTOP COMPUTER.

The other alternative, which I have yet to consider, is to get a small $300 petrol [with all the problems of getting and storing petrol] generator from Bunning’s and recharge the battery on a schedule to be determined. There is also the consideration of larger solar panels [$300 to $650] or a wind turbine [$900 to $1500]. Remember we always anchor out of the wind and when going downwind wind turbines do not work very well and they are bloody noisy.

What I really need to do is get an expert to do the consumption calculations and then match that with a suitable system of maintain a good charge. I suspect that my present setup cannot support the laptop computer.

Phillip.
Keppel Bay Marina, Yeppoon.

Battery's in SEAKA

To-Keppel-bay-marina2-001a.jpg (175.89 KiB) Viewed 3322 times

[Tales]

Thanks for your responses so far folks!

It is tempting to put the battery below the companionway steps but it will bring weight to the back.

We keep our life jackets and inflatable dinghy under the quarter berth so not sure we would like to loose all that space filling the front with battery.

Tales is quite level normally and even when we are loaded up for Bass Strait we keep the weight amidships as much as possible to avoid the tendancy to see-saw.

I must say though, the drain channels in the cockpit sole only empty completely when we are out in the cockpit.

Like Keith, I too did the sums and went over to sealed AGM last time and have not regretted the change.

There is a nice little device which I am intending to buy soon (which may also help Phillip's problem).
It is a battery monitor and appears to remove the guesswork out of battery state and draw/charge rates.

http://www.nasamarine.com/proddetail.ph ... ery&cat=15

If anyone has one I am interested to know what you think of it.

(They also have a very nice barograph but that's another topic!)

Cheers,

Tom

[Dolphin]

G'Day Gentlemen,
I have taken one of the lead acid batteries off Felicite to charge it. Through lack of use it had gone flat and unlike its mate it couldn't start the engine. (you can read too much "armchair cruising" into this)
I put Inox battery conditioner in it after reading its claims and guarantee. It contains 5% Cadmium Sulphate.

Does anyone know how it works to get rid of the sulphation and is it a good idea to use it?

I use an 18W solar panel on the batteries. When I put it on yonks ago I contacted BP Solar and they recommended not to use a regulator for the small panel but the down side is that it wil use more water and to keep an eye on the water level.
Fantastic input by everyone on batteries too, thanks.
Greg.

[lockie]

Nothing to do with battery installation, but re the earlier post pondering how many Amp-hours in and out, the bit of kit on the following link is very handy. I bought one and used it for a while to get the idea of how things were going, and it was great. It could be permanently installed, but now that I have some idea, plus keeping an eye on the voltmeter to watch for changes that indicate battery end-of-life, I just connect it occasionally to check.

Just be aware it only counts one way - ie if you connect it to count Ah into the battery, it won't count down to allow for Ah drawn out, and vice-versa. But by reversing it as appropriate, you'll get the data you need. For example, leave connect it to count Ah used on a typical cruising day. Then reverse it to count Ah out on the next typical cruising day and compare.

By the way, I returned the first one under warranty and they sent another quickly, no problems, just cost me a few bucks for return postage. I'd suggest a bench check against a good multimeter just to be sure the accuracy is reasonable (that was the problem).

http://shop.ebay.com.au/i.html?_nkw=G.T ... m270.l1313