Rigging standing

Rigging standing

Postby bearmcnally » Tue May 17, 2011 4:52 pm

Hello John

Funny that ! well not really I was having a chat with Mr Greg about rigging and insurance .Egret II standing rigging is original 37 years old and no sign of corrosion or split wires .I have a mate who's a rigger and has done some big rigs over the years and he did Egret II s rig 37 plus years ago . I was talking about re-rigging the stick on Egret II before she came up to Lake Mac 18 months ago , and he said " If ain't broke well .....". But what he was saying was that the S/S wire twenty years ago was a lot better quality than the Chinese crape (I added the Chinese crape bit ) they produce now a days. He said to look down the turn buckle and see if there is any rust etc in the turn buckle and around the wire, as S/S wire rusts from the inside out.You should spray WD40 or such into the turn buckle once in a while to stop salt and muck .Remember also the wire is made up with more than one strand of wire so you would have to have quite a few broken strands before anything terrible would happen.

So in a nut shell just have good look at the wire going into the turn buckle and if there are broken wire strands I'd think about replacing them .I would ? and this is only my opinion , say if its your uppers I would replace both uppers and so on .The only problem you'll have is that you will have to drop the stick to do the uppers and in that case you may as well re rig the the whole stick .Lowers can be done with the stick in place.

Running rigging is basically the same Egret II has a wire halyard on her head sail and a wire winch to raise them .I'm going to replace both main and head sail halyards soon as their look and feel like barb-wire.
I know some yachties are using rope halyards instead of wire :? But as everybody knows Bears old fashioned.

PS Dropping your mast is a walk in the park ;)

Cheers Bear
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Re: Rigging standing

Postby SeaLady » Tue May 24, 2011 4:30 pm

Hi Bear,

My rigging is at least 7 years old and I am thinking of getting it inspected when next slipped.

I did once have a trailer sailer and when she was slipped the shipwright suggested that we get the rigging replaced and me and my ex said.... the same as you... if it is not broken don't fix it.

The shipwright then leaned on the rigging, not particularly hard nor heavy and we were all shocked to see the stay just snap.
Perfect timing!!!!

So all standing rigging got replaced.

That said I reckon go with the opinions of experts and get it checked regularly.
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Re: Rigging standing

Postby bearmcnally » Tue May 24, 2011 8:36 pm

Hello Diana

I totally agree with what your saying.You have too remember also ,the rigging on trailer sailers is light like dinghy rigging. There is nothing worst than pondering over the rigging ,is it safe or should I had it replaced ,so having it checked is a good idea . The only thing I would do ?,I would get a rigger to have a Bo- peep at it not a shipwright, it could also pay to find out who built the stick originally .

I'm lucky I suppose I know what I'm looking at and have built masts etc over the years suppose that helps I guess. :?

Regards Bear

PS I have my lucky coin in the mast for good luck :)
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Re: Rigging standing

Postby Dolphin » Wed May 25, 2011 11:09 am

I'd like to agree with Bear. I'm not an expert on rigging at all but I'd like to add that, having been on 30ft boats that have lost 3 masts, it gets easier every time you lose one, but being prepared to cope with it is half the problem, ie what IS the plan when you lose the stick?
Certainly getting an expert to look at it puts your mind at rest.
Most failures occur at the swage. This is usually caused by a loose leeward stay wobbling and causing metal fatigue. One way to beat that without over tightening the rig is to put a long piece of PVC tube over the turnbucle and up the stay a ways.
The first mast lost was on an SnS 30. We were punching into a SEr of 20kts after rounding Wedding Cake Is on a race from Pt Hacking. The lower port stay broke, the mast buckled and over she went to leeward. THe mast slid along the deck as the boat was pushed under it and headed directly for us sitting on the windward rail. As it filled with water it went vertical where it then posed a threat to punch a hole in the bottom of the boat as it rode up and down in the 2m swell.
One of the owners got the bolt cutters and tried to cut the wire. That was pretty fruitless and the bolt cutters just mushed up the wires. We used a hacksaw, our last resort, but it was slow and left a very jagged edge. Whilst cutting the backstay, the boat went down a wave, the wire went loose, rode up over the owners hand and trapped it between the pushpit with the full weight of the rig on it. He was lucky to not have serious injuries that would have complicated the situation more. We just let the rig go, sails, mast, boom lights wind instruments, all gone, but so was the threat of any more damage.
The best method is to have shearing or Cocky Beak cutters, useful for lifelines too, or a quick release method of getting rid of the clevis pins in the chain plates. Some now use a tight fitting pin and hit it with a hammer to shear the split pin off.
The rigging showed no sign of impending failure. The rigger suggested more tension on the Inner forestay (lets not start that debate again!) to stop the mast pumping every time it hit a wave.
What is your plan for dealing with a lost mast?
Greg.
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Re: Rigging standing and safety

Postby SeaLady » Wed May 25, 2011 6:57 pm

Wow Greg. Rather you than me. Imagine that happening in todays weather!!!! NOT....

Very good question.
If in Sydney Harbour or somewhere similar.
Swim to shore.

If out at sea another question.
I do have bolt cutters on board but am still trying to figure out the best place to store them so they are easily accessible.
Loosing a mast is not something I have experienced. Nor do I want to.
A hack saw is a good idea as well.
Where should these be stored?
Perhaps on some sort of quick release line in the cockpit locker?

Another question. Or a few I should say.

1. How do you get an unconsious person back on board? I have a theory.. yet to be tested.. need a willing guinea pig.... suggest a 16 -18 year old unbreakable boy. Have yet to find one.
Attach the main halyard to them and just haul!!!!
I sometimes have my 78 year old dad on board and that system would certainly break ribs, but better than the alternative. If I remember correctly it took 5-6 strong blokes to haul the body of Andrew Short, who died in that nasty accident at Flinders Islet 18 months or so back on board. I don't have that many stong blokes at any time.

2. How to do get back on board if sailing solo and fall off at the bow?
Again if in protected waters not a problem but out at sea????

The thought of being beaten to death at the bow does not fill me with happiness.
Current thinking is 2 safety lines.
1 inside the shrouds and one outside and hooked onto both. With quick releases.
Or one short one attached to a safety line inside the shrouds and one really long one with loops tied in the line to use as foot holds to get back to the stern. Where I have an easy access ladder.
My legs are much stronger than my arms.

Many years ago when sailing with my ex, on a hot day we would go for a 'drag' . i.e. Throw a line off the stern and be dragged through the water.
Great fun and good way to cool off till you realise you are very good shark or anything else big bait.

The other point is that when the boat is moving. Perhaps when using an autopilot and solo. The force of the water is huge.

Very difficult to pull yourself up the line to get back on board.

Safety is a big priority of mine.
Especially as I don't have big muscles nor a lot of crew.
Any more ideas?

Diana
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Re: Rigging standing Thanks Bear

Postby SeaLady » Wed May 25, 2011 7:00 pm

Thanks Bear,

I will certainly get it checked by a rigger.
Watch out credit card!!!!
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Re: Rigging standing

Postby Dolphin » Wed May 25, 2011 10:07 pm

Hi Dianna,
Don't panic, but its certainly got you thinking, that's good.
I can locate the cutters in the locker, in the original box and rustproof wrapping complete with its lanyard.
There may be other solutions that people have to this problem. Lets hear them.

As I said I'm not an expert and the usual disclaimer applies.

Greg.
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Re: Rigging standing

Postby Phillip » Thu May 26, 2011 7:19 pm

Hi Top Hatter's,

If are going to use blot cutters they have to be the right ones and usually they are expensive. :roll:

I have a hack saw which covers all options. :D

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Re: Rigging standing

Postby Shaun » Fri May 27, 2011 9:38 am

G'day,
Good story Greg.
Diana, if you haven't seen them before, the parrot beak cutters look like this :arrow: http://www.shanesstainless.com.au/produ ... lity..html most hardwares & bunnies should carry them, they claim to cut up to 5mm, I have a pair & they cut 3.2mm S/S cable (used for balustrading, like scissors through paper), id suggest storing in cockpit locker in a moist rag(inox or wd40 or lanolin) inside an airtight container, attach a lanyard to the cutters.
with a hacksaw make sure it has a good blade, with a blade that can cut S/S, I think some blades are even rust-proof now.

Ive read somewhere of someone who had a seperate jackline running outside the shrouds along the gunwhale, the idea was if they fell over in front of the shrouds to clip onto the gunwhale jackline, unclip/cut other tether slide along to the transom & attempt getting back on board there, was un-tested tho'.
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Re: Rigging standing

Postby Dolphin » Fri May 27, 2011 10:52 am

YOu show off Phillip! Signing off from Leekes Beach Gt Keppel, I never!

A hacksaw is too slow and hard to use especially if the wire is slack and you're not used to using hand tools. You wil also need a fine tooth blade 32tpi for the thin strands. Make that a few blades. Have a go on an old piece of wire and see how hard it is. A hammer and knock out pins are the best or pliers and split pins. The cocky beak wire cutters will come in useful for other jobs and pay for themselves.

Also I tried the other day to get up over the side of the boat and couldn't do it. I needed to use the marline board. Or go to Jenny Craig. That was a surprise!

I wonder if it would be worthwhile to trail a "Mermaid Catcher" (a long piece of rope with a knot in the end) behind the boat when single handing.

Greg.
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