Top Hat "Marks"

[Shaun]

From: Dave (Original Message) Sent: 27/12/2002 9:31 PM
Hi

My name is Dave and I am in the process of buying a 1978 Top Hat.

The broker claims it to be a Mk2 - the surveyor has it noted as a Mk1 - both appear unsure of the differences between the two "marks".

The cabin top is of the stepped type - but I have seen photo's where this feature makes it a mk1 and on other photos makes it a mk2.

Can anyone enlighten me?

Regards

Dave



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Recommend Message 2 of 7 in Discussion

From: Rob Sent: 29/12/2002 1:43 AM
Dave

I own what I believe to be a Mk2 without the stepped cabin top. There does
appear to be some confusion about this, however the previous owner seemed
very sure that mine's a Mk2.

Hope this helps.

Rob

PS had the TH up to 8 knots on Pittwater today in a nice 15knot breeze.





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Recommend (1 recommendation so far) Message 3 of 7 in Discussion

From: geoff Sent: 2/01/2003 5:02 AM
Dave and other interested TH owners
Info i got when i bought my TH
There were four different models of top hats they are
1.The cold moulded model from 1963 , four 3mm laminations laid up with
resorsinal glue on mohogany stem and main frame with laminated mahogany
floors.

2.Baker built MK 1's Baker came from brightonYacht club in Melbourne to run
Fibreglass Yachts in NSW. These MK1's were built from around1969-73
{although exact dates are hard to pin point}and had a hand laid up GRP hull
and are therefor considered to be a little stronger than the latter
models.The MK1's did not have a sliding hatch above the companionway as did
the timber models but had a"key-hole" entry{semi eliptical shaped cabin top
above companionway}above which sat the main sheet traveller ,some of which
were a raised s/s tube following the contour of the cabin while the latter
ones were a conventional horizontal traveller.The cabin profile had a step
down to the mast{see plan A}the main sheet whinches mounted on steel struts
and sometimes had a double spreader rig.For accomodation the original
standard timber boat had four berths,a centrally located galley and a large
chart table as illingworth placed great importance on the role of the
navigator,whilst with many of the MK1's the interior layout was often left
up to the individual.However,some were built with an enclosed
head,vee-births forward,central galley and settee berths port and starboard.

3. Formit Fibreglass in Wyong took over Fibreglass Yachts and continued to
produce the MK1's . Apparently Mike Garrett of Formit asked a Sydney Naval
architect to improve the cabin layout and look at the boats sailing lines.
The cabin layout was modernised but the Naval architect couldnt improve
Illingworths original underwater lines.The new MK2 was released in november
1976 and had a relocated forward hatch,anchor well,wider and fatter cabin
top and streamliining.A lock-up toilet was still available but a MK2 A
appeared with a toilet forward and an oilskin locker!

4. The MK3 appeared around 1981 and was usually characterised by a single
sleek tinted plexi-glass window on either side of the cabin. However the
traditional windows of three per side were still available and could be
specified as required.Two interior designs were availablethey were {A}The
racing version with the head between the forward bunks and a hanging locker
in the main saloon for wet weather gear etc. {b}Full lock-up toilet version
with a smallish but manageable compartment with toilet,hand basin etc,aimed
at the small family cruising market. A single deep cockpit locker was
provided on the port side which allowed for a good sized quater birth on
the starboard side.

The basic hull remained the same with the near full length keel ,keel
hung rudder,1234 kg of lead in the keel and a displacement of 2.58
tonnes.This represents a safe ballast ratio of 48%. The hulls were gun
sprayed in two halves , joined down the middle and then lead is poured into
the keel from inside.
geoff



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Recommend Message 4 of 7 in Discussion

From: Dave Sent: 3/01/2003 6:15 PM
Thanks Rob and Geoff for your responses re: TH "Marks".

Re: Rob's info - it would appear as though my TH is a Mk 1 due to its cabin shape.

Re: Geoff's info - it would appear as though my TH is a Mk 2 due to its date (1978).

There is a problem in my case with the date. It would appear that Baker sold out to Mike Garret some time before 1976. My specification sheet claims that the builder of my TH was Baker and the launch date was 1978 - there is obviously conflict here.

A possibility though could be that a hull was purchased by the original owner prior to 1976 or prior to Baker selling out. It could well have taken 2 or more years to fit out privately so that it was launched in 1978. This would then fit in with Rob's info as well as Geoff's info.

However, just to throw a spanner in the works, I recently spoke to an owner of a (mid 1960's) wooden TH who had owned it for about 28 years and who was its 3rd owner. He claimed that:
the Mk 1 had a flat cabin top with sliding access hatch (his boat)
the Mk 2 had a stepped cabin top with keyhole access
the Mk 3 had a flat cabin top as the Mk1 but was more curved in its width
My TH whether Mk1 or Mk2 has:

a stepped cabin top
no anchor well - but has a chain locker with no hatch - access from f'ward cabin
a forward cabin hatch on the lower section of cabin top
the main sheet traveller is towards the aft of the cockpit
a strong curved deck
moulded varnished timber capped toe rail
vee berths in the f'ward cabin with head between ( the head is fitted inside removeable blackwood panels)
settee/berths to port and st'board in the saloon
galley is to port f'ward in the saloon with a nice sized chart table opposite to st'bd
three windows on each side of cabin plus one facing forward on the lower section of the cabin top
a lockable locker to port and another to st'bd in the cockpit.
Regards

Dave










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Recommend Message 5 of 7 in Discussion

From: geoff Sent: 4/01/2003 4:38 AM
dave
I would say its definatley a mk1 My mk1 has exactly the same
layout as yours exept for the forward facing window.And funnily enough it
was purchaced as a hull only then fitted out in the guys backyard and
launched some eight years latter.
Anyway by the sound of your message you did by it,so happy sailing!!



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Recommend Message 6 of 7 in Discussion

From: Dave Sent: 4/01/2003 1:30 PM
From Dave

Geoff

My forward facing window looks as though it might have been added later (not trimmed as the side windows are).

Yep - I'll settle for it being a Mk 1.

Thanks

Dave

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Recommend Message 7 of 7 in Discussion

From: Dave Sent: 4/01/2003 1:57 PM
Geoff

Further to my previuos posts - I reckon the chap I spoke to who had the wooden 1960's TH and who claimed it to be a Mk1, is probably mistaken and has a "Mk 0" ( item 1. mention in your earlier post). His TH was wooden, had a flat cabin top and had a sliding hatch entry rather than the key hole entry of my TH (Mk 1).

Regards

Dave