What should i know?

[scott]

Hi all,

I'm new to this site and new to the world of Top Hats. I've been eyeing them off for a few years now and am now considering buying one. I have previously owned a Careel MkIII and considered another trailer yacht (was going to be a Farr6), but I'd like to do some short coastal trips out of Lake Macquarie up to areas like Port Stephens, Broughton Is etc. And then maybe one day fulfill my dream of sailing off to Lord Howe.

What I'd like in my boat is more or less the Mk I design, ie the enclosed head, three windows (but only because I like that look better than the single window), chart / dinner table, the small locker that some seem to have and an inboard motor*. Also an icebox, or at least room for a 40l car fridge would be good and purely for asthetic reasons, I'd like the moulded interior of the MkII / III's, but from what I understand, the MkI's don't have this - is that right?

*I'd prefer an inboard over an outboard, but that is only because I was tired of taking the outboard off my Careel when not in use. I'm not sure of how the inboards compare to say an 9 / 10 hp outboard. Maybe an outboard is better?

I'm not sold on any one design as yet and I'd be interested in opinions of others on the different models and pros and cons of any differences.

Thanks to those who have created this site and I look forward to any tips etc and hopefully in the not too distant future owning another boat.


Scott.

[storm petrel]

Hi Scott,

The moulded interior was in the MkII and MkIII as you suggest, though some of the MkIIs were fitted out by their owners (mine was) in timber. My MkII is the racing version with the head under the V-berth, I believe the most others have an enclosed head like the MkIIIs.

The Baker built MkIs are reported to have the strongest hull, but all versions of the Tophat are immensely strong by today's standards. I had a shipwright on board recently who said, "you wouldn't get this much fibreglass in a 36' boat today".

I agree with the inboard - no lifting, a decent sized fuel tank, less volatile fuel, a prop that stays under water when things get rough and enough torque to push you against a strong tidal flow. I have a friend who almost came to grief entering Brisbane Waters in his top hat because he could not get enough drive from his outboard. He fitted an inboard and has never had any problems since.

Prices are very reasonable at the moment so you should be able to pick up a good tophat without breaking the bank.

Good luck,
Mark
(There are photographs of my MkII Storm Petrel, which has a 15Hp Yanmar inboard, in the photo gallery on this site)

[Shaun]

Hi Scott,

Welcome to the site!

I agree with you about lifting the outboard, on my MkIII its a definite problem, i havent made a frame to lift the outboard above water level of the outboard well. At present i lift the outboard onto a bracket on the pushpit while sailing, at sea its a two person job!.
On some (or maybe all?) MkI's theres a cut-out on the transom, you simply tilt the outboard while sailing.
Ive been happy with the way a 6hp & now an 8hp outboard has pushed the boat along, but i havent experienced any critical conditions.

The moulded interior is nice, but makes it very hard to track down leaks.

I have the enclosed toilet (with no toilet) that im considering shelving to provide space for an approx 40L fridge plus storage for sails etc.
Shaun
"Night Cap" MkIII

[scott]

Thanks for the replies Mark / Shaun,

It's unlikely I'll find a boat exactly as I'd like so it's just a matter of waying each boat as it comes along I guess. Of all the things I'd like to have, I will try and stick to an inboard if I can. It's interesting that there are so many variations on the design though. I assume that the rigging, mast, boom etc are more or less the same?

Hopefully I'll be lucky and find a boat close to Newcastle / Lake Macquarie, but my luck is not good with things like this! I'm expecting she will be a long way from where I hope to have her moored which means either a sail to Lake Macquarie or transport by truck. Sailing would be beyond my experience so I'd be reluctant to do that at this point, but I'd be interested if anyone has used the truck option and how that went.

While I think of it, are there any owners in the Batemans Bay / South Coast area around?

Thanks in advance,
Scott.

[storm petrel]

Hi Scott,

There are often Tophats for sale at Lake Macquarie, Broken Bay and Sydney. If you have to transport the yacht you may find it cheaper to have it delivered or sail it home yourself. You might be able to negotiate this as a condition of purchase with the curent owner, or you could hire someone to deliver it. The best way would be to get a pal with some coastal sailing experience to come with you and sail it back yourself. Sydney-Pittwater-Lake Macquarie are well travelled day hops. Provided the boat is sound (a pre-purchase survey should ensure this), it is just a matter of picking a day with the right weather, sea and tides. See Shaun's posts on sailing his 'new' yacht to Laurieton.

If you are going to buy a renovators delight, however, trucking it home might be a better (though more expensive) plan.

Cheers,
Mark

[Phillip]

Evening Scott,

I brought my Mk1 up from Pittwater by road and found at the time that there was only one firm that would do the job and be able to launch at the other end. I retrieve and launched SEAKA at normal boat ramps. He also dropped and relifted the mast.

I'm at Laurieton and that exercise cost $2000, but well worth it in the end as we found a major problem with the inboard and if I had sailed the cost may have been a new motor!

If you, or anybody else needs his name I can find it if required.

Phillip
SEAKA

[taunto]

G'day Scott ,I live up the road from you and sail Jervis Bay ,when i bought my boat I used a transport firm in Sydney called Port a Slip to bring her home,I've got to say that were fantastic ,they load off a normal boat ramp and they know the south coast and all the boat ramps to unload from . From Burraneer Bay to Greenwell Point was nine hundred and fifty dollars.The vessel I bought needed a lot of TLC , sailing was not in the equations so i figgered the transport price into the offer i made,it made sense and was accepted buy the seller. Wander down to the marina at at the bay and talk to Peter Walsh he is the rigger there, and has his finger on the pulse,he knows who is selling what, but i think he will always quote you a little bit high because he likes a cut of the selling price, he's a good bloke and will talk to you about you prospective purchase and give you good advice.When you get you boat and have learned how to sail her in all kinds of weather you should plan a trip to J B to spend a weekend, it truly is one of the great places to sail on our patch of turf. Cheers Taunto

[scott]

Hi Taunto,

I was kayaking in JB a few weeks ago. Beautiful spot and always wanted to take my Careel down there. I was in the bay the other day and went to speak with Peter, but he was out. May be back down there for a paddle on the weekend, so will stick my head in. Thanks to you and Phillip for the info re transport. My ideal world has a boat that doesn't need too much TLC and would be in a reasonable seaworthy condition. Will see what happens!

While I'm here, does anyone have advice on autohelms and inboards. I'm thinking the ST1000 would be suitable, but is there enough 'fudge factor' there, given the Top Hat is around 2500kg unladen and the ST1000 is rated to (from memory and not checking) 3000kg? Would the ST2000 be a better option? I forget what the price difference is.

On inboards, obviously I have to be happy with what is in place I guess, but what would be considered a recommended inboard hp rating?

Thanks all for the advice and interesting information on the site.

Scott.

[taunto]

G'day Scott, regarding the outboard size an 8HP Yamaha 2stroke is a great motor,lighter than a four stroke and there is not the problem with oil getting into the cylinder if it is laid on the wrong side.A little side note ,a few years ago i was passing through Ulladulla, and as one does i slipped down to have a look a the boats, there on the slipway was a lovely looking Top Hat ,the owner was on board doing some alterations,he had taken out the motor from under the stair way and way cutting the stern to fit an outboard ,he was very vocal about the break downs he had suffered with the diesel and felt that an outboard way much easier to service ,and cheaper to run than an inboard in a boat of this size ,i must admit that i too think along these lines,i like the KISS system.Tomorrow I'm pulling out a Top Hat to do some work on it for a client ,it will be out of the water for about 4 weeks ,if you would like to pop up to have a look give me your number and i''ll call you and we can make a time .Cheers Taunto

[Miker]

Scott, I won't profess to know much about the ins and outs of Top Hats just yet. I pick mine up today.....so I'm really a novice in the feild, but I have done a lot of research into which boat I was going to buy and what it should include if possible.

It has an 8HP 4 stroke Tohatsu on a stern bracket, because the head was too large for the well. Plus, the previous owner was tired of the smell and noise having it in the cockpit.

He had looked at diesels as well, but decided it was a lot of money for not much gain. In my travels when looking at boats to buy, I was leaning towards a diesel too and would still have one if it was a late model sail drive, or shaft drive, but the ones I saw were very sorry looking engines that required aerostart in some cases to actually start, plus the bilges were full of water from worn stern glands, and oil that had leaked from the various points in various gaskets. The cabin of these boats smelled unmistakeably of that salty diesel fuel/oil you get in some older boats. Not pleasant. I believe if you find a boat with a well looked after late model diesel you should have no problem if you look after it and service it regularly, but if you find the ideal boat (for you) with an outboard it shouldn't be a deal killer. What should be a deal killer is a diesel that is old, rusty, has little compression and leaks oil and water all over the place.

My new boat is dry, completely dry, even after all the recent Sydney rain, and when running under the outboard it's very quiet. Once the remote control cables are installed it will me much more pleasant to operate as well. She motors at about 6-8 knots easily.

There are a couple of Top Hats still for sale, at Lamoore in Palm Beach, David Bray in Newport (Pittwater) Australian Boat Brokers Marmong Pt. Another in Church Point. All on Boatsales. I discounted the first two because they weren't as nice, were damp inside and not looked after at all. The other two on price alone. I'm more than happy with the private sale I got with Dulcamara, and although her previous owners loved her to bits, they had a newer larger boat they were in the process of finishing and had to let her go. She was listed in the trading post only 10 days ago, some in Boatpoint have been there for months.

Enjoy the hunt, it's anguishing and frustrating, but also rewarding when you find yours sitting under your nose.

Michael
"Dulcamara" (may change soon, not sure about the name.... )