Excessive Weather Helm - fact or problem for the few

[Homestar]

I have been reading the Forum and other sources of information about Top Hats, and have come across several comments that as wind speed increases so does weather helm and disproportionately so. One article I read recommended getting the first reef in the main as soon as wind speed was over 10/12kts.

While easing or reefing the main should definitely reduce weather helm, is it really the problem the article I read made it? I have been looking at a lot of photographs of Top Hat cockpit layouts,
and yes I realise she is classified as a cruising boat but let’s not forget she was designed as a racer for the JOG series. One of the things I have not seen is a Top Hat set-up with the ability to play the traveller which should/may cure the weather helm issue in gusts.

I assume this must have been tried in the past and am interested in what the results, if any, were. I am hoping to after getting used to my boat in take part in WAGS and SAGS club races which are held in Moreton Bay . I will not be removing ballast etc but naturally will be removing sails that won’t be used in that afternoon’s race, excessive food all the things that seem to find their way aboard and possibly carrying only enough fresh water for 24 hours. In other words not comprising safety but not having unnecessary items on board for the races.

If anyone has information / advice on the weather helm issue, is it as fierce as described and how did you resolve it would be greatly appreciated. I have also wondered if anyone has tinkered with rudder shapes, I wasn’t thinking or altering the tiler of rudder shaft but wondered if anyone one without an inboard engine has faired off the gap where the prop used to be and as I mentioned tweaked the shape of the rudder in an attempt to reduce the apparent fierce weather helm.

If anyone reading this is the author of the piece on the excessive weather helm and the need to reef if over 10/12 kts I am not doubting your words but simply trying to see if it is a common issue and how others deal with it.

[Phillip]

First thing is to check your mast rake.

Top Hats were designed to have a 6" rake.

Measure this with your mainsail halyard just above your boom.

Why we say to reef early is that Top Hats are driven by the jib/Genoa/spinnaker and at higher wind speeds little is gained by a full main putting the gunnel underwater.
The more upright the better.
Check your rigging tensions so that all is even.

Be careful that you do not get a high handicap early in the season as you will never win on corrected time
Top Hats when empty are very livery and sit over 6" higher in the water.

I can see no advantage in altering the rudder which was designed by Primrose for racing.

Do you have a traveller for your main sheet or one fixed point, if you have a fixed point you need to install a traveller.

Best of luck with the racing, Tom down in Port Phillip was wining race series only a few years ago. He may see this and add comments.

[bearmcnally]

what Phil said is correct? Top Hats need headsail power and the main for balance , the traveller is critical to be able to depower the main. My old TopHat I would sheet the main and play the traveller never had a weather helm problem doing it this way.
There was a Top Hat Mk 2 or 3 that sailed out of Middle Harbour gutted for racing and she was quick, back around the 90's I think?
Cheers Bear

[Tales]

I agree with what Phillip and John (Bear) have written. A traveller is a must, especially for racing.
Top Hats have a moderate draft and need to be kept on their feet. We could hold off the first reef by 5 knots if we had crew on the rail. If the toe rail is in the water, the boat is just going sideways.
A baggy main will make matters worse because the boom has to be up to get the upper part of the main working while the lower part is just tipping the boat over.
A baggy jib will make her heel too, so good sails are a must for racing.
A #1, #2 & #3 will cover below 5 knots to a bit over 20 knots but 2 reefs will be needed by then and if not in flat water, will have to be eased a bit just to get over the waves and keep moving.
I made up single line reefing and could put in a reef in 30 to 40 seconds from the helm. Took longer to shake it out of course!
We raced mostly with just the two of us or sometimes solo. Bodies on the rail do help but extra crew does complicate things.
A clean hull is essential. Not just for speed but any growth disturbs the flow of water over the keel and rudder which in turn reduces its effectiveness. More deflection is required to get the desired effect and (you guessed it!) more weather helm.
Much more can be written but there are plenty of book around.
Please don’t try to compare a Top Hat to more modern, light weight boats. They are what they are and when the weather gets dirty, a well found Top Hat will look after you.

Tom

[Phillip]

Well written Tom, Spot on!

[Paulvb]

Old Harry has a traveller and I use that religiously. I agree that reefing the main is definitely good over 15 knots.
Old harry has a furler and two sizes of headsail. The owner I bought it off only ever had the small one on it. Sized somewhere between a 2 & 3 fully out.
That smaller headsail managed to pull the boat over dramatically with a fair amount of weather helm and furling it in only slowed the boat speed.
I put the larger headsail on which is approx #1 sized maybe a touch longer and noticed the massive increase in speed and less healing motion for the same wind. the boat is well behaved up to 15 knots.
Once the wind is over 15 knots we furl it in until it is just after the aft lowers #2 size roughly. That keeps it going well but over 15 knots it does get alot more weather helm.
Thus if you reef the main the balance is restored.
We do tend to want speed and in a race time is lost mucking around, so as the wind in Perth tends to increase as the afternoon goes on if it is a seabreeze, I tend to put up with until it gets to the point of rounding up or excessive gunnel dipping in gusts. Then we reef.

[saintpeter]

What Phil, Tom and Bear have written is spot on. Despite sailing for nearly 60 years, my TopHat is the first headsail driven boat I've sailed. And it took a bit to get my head around the power in that genoa.

Weather helm is usually explained in two-dimensions:- centre-of-lateral-effort vs centre-of-lateral-resistance. That's OK for skiffs but not the Tophat. Airflow over a big genoa is upward, and a lot of power comes from high above the foot. A Tophat is easily heeled under full power and that power is way out to leward when looked at from above. That gives a huge twisting moment to windward when heeled; i.e. weather helm. De-powering the main will help - but mostly because it reduces the heel.

So reef the main early. And consider easing the genoa leach (sheet further aft). Sheet is best on ball-bearing cars with tackle adjustment. My boat will sail reasonably well to windward in stronger winds (18-20 kts) with a hard sheeted genoa alone - no main. Theory might say that would give lee helm, but no - heeling/rounding moment is counterbalanced by foresail moment. With the second reef in the main I'm not afraid to roll up a bit of genoa too.

As for the main - I have gone back to two double-line reefs. Single line was too long to trim without tangles. Positive downhauling on the tack reef points means I can reef without rounding up much. Luckily I have plenty of cabin-top clutches! Each reef should take about one minute, single-handed of course.

Peter.