Dangerous cockpit locker?

[Troppo]

I love the cockpit locker on Windchaser. However, I wonder if its mix of contents is dangerous.

The battery is in there. The outboard electric start wires run in there and the solar panel ones. There are also four containers of petrol including the tank which plugs into the outboard motor.

At first, doing a thorough check after buying the boat, all I saw was the fuel containers and I didn't find the battery until I had dug down a bit.


In my opinion, it is easy enough to make sparks from the battery. Since the outboard motor start wires need to be taken off the battery when the motor is raised out of its well, there is a bit of connecting and disconnecting of wires that will take place regularly. Hmm, sparky sparky is a strong possibility.

Mix sparky sparky with sniff sniff - Is that petrol? - and I could get bangity bang bang.

What's your thoughts? Where do you have your fuel tank (if you have outboard) and where is your battery?

[Miker]

I only have one cockpit locker, port side. In that, resides the petrol tank for the outboard and the buffers, mooring lines etc, plus the covers when not in use.

My battery is under the starboard side quarter berth, and I don't have electric start, so the only wires aft are for solar panels and stern light, on the complete opposite side to the petrol.

The batteries were originally behind the stairs, but difficult to get too, might be worth looking at how you can relocate the power sources.

[storm petrel]

I am with you. This sounds quite unsafe. I would move the battery elsewhere and redirect any other wires. I now have a diesel and do not have to worry so much but I would definitely not have my fuel tank or spare fuel anywhere near anything that could make a spark. It is doubly problematic having these things together in a confined space where an explosive mix of oxygen and fuel vapor could form.

Cheers,
Mark

[Tales]

Liquid fuel outside a tank obviously finds its way to low points in the boat but fuel vapours do as well.

Because of the amount of accidents over the years and the disastrous consequences, authorities have made laws to protect people.

You will find reference to these if you go racing and they are pretty sensible.

The rules and regulations for fuel systems on boats appear to have 4 goals:-

- To stop spillage of fuel into the hull during refuelling.
- To minimise leakage into hull in case of accident.
- To vent hull to get rid of fuel vapours.
- To keep ignition sources away from fuel or fuel vapour.

Keeping a fuel tank (or fuel storage containers) inside the Top Hat cockpit locker contravenes 3 of these and adding a battery and wiring completes the set.

It is tempting to use the cockpit lockers for that purpose but they were not designed or built for that.

I used to do it but not anymore.

All the best,

Tom

[Dolphin]

Hi Troppo,
I think you have identified a real problem. If you're storing petrol in the locker do you think it would be better to put a Bilge blower style fan with a duct to the low point to remove the fumes.
On the MK III the battery is under the front of the quarter berth. That balances out the fuel tank.
You could put a waterproof 2 pin plug and socket in the cockpit to quickly disconnnect the start circuit to remove the O/B.
Jiust a suggestion.
Greg.

[Troppo]

Thank you folks for the feedback.

Windchaser is two week's sail south of what is to become her home port (Rockhampton) and I'll be going down after Easter to start bringing her up, weather permitting. No too much I can do about moving things around until she's up here. But I am gunna be extra extra careful.

What do you think about moving the spare fuel container (red plastic 20 litre) to the side deck and lashing it to a stanchion or something? I could tie a towel over it to help keep the sun off although the sun is no-where near as bad now as mid-summer. That would reduce the chances of fuel spill in the locker. This would be a temporary measure until I got home.

There were 4 fuel containers in the locker. I am only using two - the main outboard tank and a spare. I didn't want to be carrying any more and would carry less but I do want the one backup. Gee, petrol has an Excitment Factor all of it own that diesel just does not have.

[Miker]

Keeping a fuel tank (or fuel storage containers) inside the Top Hat cockpit locker contravenes 3 of these and adding a battery and wiring completes the set.

It is tempting to use the cockpit lockers for that purpose but they were not designed or built for that.

Tom

Tom, you have a good point, although I guess it depends on the cockpit locker, and the type of fuel tank/container.

On our boat the port locker is open to the rest of the boat, it is not enclosed in any way. If you look from the cabin, along the quarter berth, you can see the tank, and then to the inside of the stern. The tank itself is vented in the cap and the rest of the boat is vented as you would normally vent a boat to allow for free flowing air to prevent mould etc. When it comes time to refill, it gets lifted out to minimise risk of spillage.

In the case of the original outboard set up, It doesn't look as if Primrose and Illingworth had a specific design for where an outboard fuel tank may be placed, but it's certain it would have had to have been in a locker somewhere, there is no room in the cockpit unless you sit it on one of the seats, and that's fine when under way, but when it's stored?

So long as you don't spill the fuel, and the tank is vented and all care is taken to prevent sparks, it should be safe IMO, but it is a definite cross against outboards....

[lockie]

Gotta chime in here as I design electrical installations for areas that have flammable gases and vapours (oil and gas plants, offshore platforms and the like).

Any arrangement that might allow petrol vapours (which are heavier than air) to accumulate in an enclosed space is potentially very dangerous. This is especially the case where a spark caused by a switch or chafed insulation might occur (such as the locker referred to in the OP, or the boat's interior). And a locker that communes with the interior of the boat, as per the previous post, could allow the vapours to accumulate within the cabin and bilge, where they could be ignited by a switch, stove or a cigarette.

Although the probability of accumulated vapour being ignited is actually surprisingly small, the consequences are so dire (probably fatal if you're in the cabin, or sinking if you're at sea) that prevention is essential.

Keep the petrol containbers out where they are freely ventilated and the vapours can drain away easily. Lashed somewhere on deck is best unless you have a purpose designed ventilated locker, like some bigger boats do for LPG cylinders.

Cheers, lockie

[Shaun]

Hi Troppo,

As suggested above, a quick fix (for the delivery home), & then think about a more permanent solution when you get home, would be to sit the fuel tank on one of the cockpit seats & lash the fuel tank to the staunchions, an ugly looking lashing is perfectly acceptable & held the fuel tank securly in that position on the last TH that I had that had an outboard.
The fuel cap could possibly leak during heavy rain, so cut out the bottom couple if inches of a plastic soft drink bottle, & gaffa tape it loosely in place over the cap.

Is this a silly idea....
Is there room in the anchor locker for small fuel containers?,

cheers

[Killick69]

This a a good and important discussion>
The red plastic 12 litre tanks that are coupled to one's outboard have vents. Should the vent be opened when one leaves the boat? What about when one is spending the day/night on the boat? The above is assuming the tank is in the port side locker. Has anyone fitted a cover (rubber?) over the vent, with a hose leading to outside. This would allow the tank to breathe and keep fumes from to getting into the boat.

If one left the vent open for a period of days/weeks how much petrol would escape and would this lead to excessive fumes in the boat?

How about the 5 litre plastic containers everyone seems to use? These have no vent. I often leave one of these in the cockpit locker. More petrol is obviously a problem, but does a full container have fewer/more pressure/vacuum problems than a half full one? Sometimes these look like they are gonna pop and other times they 'collapse'.

I store the outboard in the cabin (lying on the port quarter berth) and wonder how much of a danger the petrol in the carburettor poses. Sometimes I run the carby dry.