Reef shoe bearing.

[Dolphin]

Phil, do you remember the dimensions of the reef shoe bearing, the diameter of the spigot, its length and the hole dia (Bore) in the rudder?
Also can you remember the diameter of the bolts for the reef shoe? (8mm)
Felicite has to come out in early march. I feel the rudder bottom bearing has to be refitted to remove some slack.

Greg.

[Phillip]

Greg,

No, I did not take those measurements, so you will have to rely on my mem..... how do you spell that word?

Yes, the threaded rod is 8mm SS.
Make sure you clean the ends with an ordinary nut before using the locking nuts
and do tap the end threads over when you have it all together.
The rods should be replaced every 3 to 4 years as the thread corrodes under the nuts.
Each rod should be less than 150mm long and you have 3, I think [Mark 1's have 4 bolts], but get enough for 4 in case I'm wrong.

Now the pin on the rudder shoe. The space up into the rudder will be about 50mm.
Get a small length of red/orange electrical pvc tubing.
The pin on the shoe is just a wee bit larger than the inside diameter of the pvc pipe.
The hole in the rudder is just a wee bit smaller than the outside diameter of the pvc pipe.

Thats the best I can do for mearsurements. Seaka's showed no sign of wear.

So you can see there is a bit of tolerance in this fitting.
The rudder is really kept in line by the two cutlass bearings top and bottom of the rudder tube inside your TH.
I replaced Seaka's with two new 75mm long lenghts, with a 3/4" ID, top and bottom. Glue them in with Aradit.
Check the OD of your rudder shaft before getting the cutlass bearings.
Our engineering mates at the marina should be able to get it for you. Comes in at about $7 an inch.

There should be a nylon washer about 5mm thick between the shoe and the rudder, this is what the rudder sits on.
The washer should be OK as mine is OK and it's over 40 years old!

[Dolphin]

thanks Phillip,
I'll get some 8mm rod.
I'll try and do it early March.

Thanks, Greg.

[steve]

Greg,

I see that your boat is a Mark III so your rudder fittings may differ from Phillip's.

Attached are two drawings, one of the shoe and the other of the rudder. These came from Form-It in 1985 and relate to the Mark III.

The shoe drawing shows the pin as 17mm but I would not be totally confident in its accuracy because the other drawing shows the rudder shaft diameter as 26mm and elsewhere on the same drawing refers to it as 25mm. I suspect that they are inaccurate conversions from imperial sizes. It would be best to measure it as Phillip suggests.

The drawing shows the shoe bolts as three eighth inch. They are that size on my Mark 3. I replaced them a few years ago. It was the first time that they had been replaced since the boat was launched in 1986. Two were as good as new, the others were corroded, the worst being only about half its original diameter.

Even with the bolts out I could not remove the shoe. It was too well stuck on. I tried hitting it hard with a hammer but it did not move. Maybe applying heat would do it. If you find a way of removing it, please let me know.

The plastic washer that goes between the rudder and shoe disappeared on my boat after less than 25 years. It is interesting that it has lasted 40 years on Seaka. Maybe it depends on whether the tiller is tied in position when the boat is on its mooring, or how exposed the mooring is. I did not initially realise that it had disappeared and before I realised the bronze shoe around the pin was eroded several mm by the U shaped piece of stainless at the bottom of the rudder rubbing on it. However, as the pin goes a good distance into the bronze, I think it still has plenty of strength. Because I could not get the shoe off, the only way I could replace the plastic washer was by slitting it. I still seemed to be OK last time I looked which was a year or so after I fitted it.

I presume that there must be a cutlass bearing inside the U shaped piece of stainless at the bottom of the rudder. The drawings I have do not show what is there. If you are getting movement at the bottom of the shaft, I would think this cutlass bearing would most likely be the cause. Because of the length and rigidity of the rudder shaft I would suspect that this bearing and the one at deck level hold the shaft in place while the one where the shaft rises into the hull just stops creatures entering the space in the rudder tube.

If you want to buy your cutlass bearings mail order, look at the Vesco Plastics website. Make sure you get onto the Australian site rather than their headquarters (South African) site. They are not really set up for mail order but were quite happy to accept my telephone order and credit card payment and mailed it out.

I bought a replacement for the bearing at deck level as I had movement there but was not been able to install it as I could not remove the tiller connecting block. (However, since then Tom of Tales has given me some pointers as to how I might remove the block). So I ended up cutting the bearing in half and fitting it above deck level. It seems to be OK. However, that is not really relevant to you if your movement is at the bottom.

Steve

[Shaun]

Thanks Steve for posting those attachments( I havent seen them before), & have taken the liberty of copying & posting them in the Gallery

cheers

[Phillip]

Interesting Steve.

The rudder shoe at the bottom is only providing vertical support.
There was no wear on the shoe pin or on the shoe if the nylon washer had worn away
in the past on Seaka and the dimensions are all wrong for a cutlass bearing.

The drawing indicates five bolts, there are four on Seaka and they were originally gunmetal pins.
I have only ever seen three on Mk 2 & 3's. What has everybody else got?

The cutlass bearings are in the rudder tube only, top and bottom, and are glued in place.

[Dolphin]

Thanks Steve,
I might wait and see what is actually there.
I think the original bolts are brass.
Felicite is a bit different in that it has wheel steering and therefore no tube. It has one stuffing tube in the hull and sleeve bearing in the top at the cockpit the where the tiller attaches (I think).
I have got a bit of wear and I will check it out before I go pulling it apart. A long time ago we ran aground and lifted the rudder, it could have got some sand in it then, i'll see how it goes. WE have been aground several times being a Port Hacking boat.

[Troppo]

On Windchaser (Mk II), I have 4 bolts through the shoe. The bolts I took out when doing repair I thought copper as very soft. The nylon washer under the end of the rudder shaft was still good.

[Killick69]

Mine is a mark3 and there are 3 'bolts' (threaded rod) on the hull part and 3 on the rudder. Maybe can tell you more tomorrow.
I bought 1 metre 316 ss (8mm) and associated nuts and washers from Austain in Granville (Sydney) for under $20. Just from glancing at it last night, the diameter looked bigger than 8mm. The nylon type washer is still in good condition. Rudder feels and looks good, but there was some water running off/out of it for an hour or 2 but no dripping after that.

Cheers, John
We had an incredibly long motor to get to Fenwicks from Parsley Bay (2 hours) and max speed we got to was under 1.8 knots. The effect of tide, water still coming down river and a dirty bottom was amazing.

Cheers, John

[Tales]

The terms 'brass' and 'bronze' can be a bit confusing for folk not involved in the industry.

For marine applications it is important to use something with mimimal zinc in it's make up.

Brass tends to have a fair bit of zinc and after contact with seawater for any length of time exhibits a sponge like appearance and similar strength.

Silicone bronze fasteners are advertised in Afloat somewhere if one is determined to go with bronze but 316 stainless seems to be working pretty well for most people.

Cheers,

Tom