Anchor size for TopHat

Anchor size for TopHat

Postby saintpeter » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:39 pm

I currently have a Delta (not measured for weight) on Kittiwake. I also have the Super Sarca No.2 from the previous trailer-sailer (6kg - from specifications). While the Sarca looks 'bigger', tests better, and worked well for 1.5 tonnes, it may be at least one size too small for a Tophat. Plenty of chain and nylon rode available.

It had been my intention to swap to the Sarca for generally better holding power, if it will fit in the locker. I want to be set up for coastal and Bass Strait anchorages. ?? Any thoughts from the brains trust ?? Or do I cash both and buy a bigger one?
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Re: Anchor size for TopHat

Postby Phillip » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:22 pm

For a start, buy 34m of 8mm gal chain. [$280]

Make a lead angel weight [in a 1 kg fruit tin]. see previous posts on this.

Make up a 12mm nylon anchor chain snubber of at least 4m long plus extra to cleat on.

Once you have that lets talk about your anchor.

I use a 27 lb CQR and have only dragged twice [when I let the anchor chain wrap around the anchor].

I have 12mm double braid 30m backup anchor line if more is needed. [I have it ready to shackle on]
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Re: Anchor size for TopHat

Postby Shaun » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:46 pm

Gday Peter,
I'm not sure about Bass Strait anchoring, don't know if you have to account for anchoring in weed often? , but inNSW a10kg new generation type ( i have a rocna) does nicely asa main anchor, with 30m of 8mm short link chain with 50m of nylon rode
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Re: Anchor size for TopHat

Postby saintpeter » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:21 pm

While I respect Phillip's experience in TopHats, my question was really about anchor size (weight). I stated that I had plenty of chain and nylon, and in any case that is easily acquired. I would not go backwards to a CQR, since I already have a Delta, and would not use an 'angel weight'.

If my Delta and Sarca are indeed undersized, I will sell them and go straight to a 10kg Rocna (assuming it would fit in the locker).
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Re: Anchor size for TopHat

Postby steve » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:09 am

10 kg Rocnas and Manson Supremes seem the most popular choices for Top Hats in recent years. Rob Lovelace circumnavigated Australia a few years ago using a 10 kg Supreme and reported very favorably about it. However, neither of these will fit in the anchor well of a Mark 3. It is possible to modify the anchor well by creating a recess in the bottom of it, or by modifying the lid. Do you need to put your anchor in the well? If you keep your boat in a marina, as I think you do, can you not keep the anchor on the bow roller as Rob did while he went round Australia?

I replaced my CQR by a Supreme a few years ago and the Supreme was a vast improvement. Having said that, the only time that I have used it in strong wind it dragged. The wind was recorded at the nearest BoM station as 30 knots which should not have caused it to drag, but the strong wind coincided with high tide so I wonder if I did not have enough rode out. I only use 10m of chain (and 12mm nylon for the rode) so more chain might have helped. Also I was close up to a steep hill (at Flinders, among the moored boats) which I initially thought would give me shelter but with hindsight may have caused the wind to be increased locally. I dragged for over 100m with the force on the anchor being too great for me to raise it but too little to stop the boat. I only managed to raise the anchor when I reached deep water. To avoid this problem in the future I have now put a roller at the mast step so I can lead the rode back to the cockpit and pull it in while also controlling the engine.

Iluka (of Williamstown) was anchored at Deal Island when the recorded wind was over 50 knots a few years ago. He reported no problems. It might be worth finding out what anchor he used, to give you some confidence.
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Re: Anchor size for TopHat

Postby Phillip » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:38 am

Unless I'm in an enclosed area where I cannot lay out 30m of chain I always lay out thirty metres of chain, ALWAYS!

I also always use a snubber.

If I know I am about to experience winds over 20 knots I ALWAYS use an angel weight.

With my CQR, snubber and angel weight I have survived 3 days of winds approaching and over 40 knots. I did not drag.

BUT I do not want to go through that again as I did not get much sleep.
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Re: Anchor size for TopHat

Postby Iluka82 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:38 pm

"Iluka (of Williamstown) was anchored at Deal Island when the recorded wind was over 50 knots a few years ago. He reported no problems. It might be worth finding out what anchor he used, to give you some confidence."

Hi Steve yep i've got the 25lb (11.2kg) Manson supreme, it held when I was anchored at Deal Island in a westerly gale, another guy sheltering at the same cove had to re anchor 4-5 times over the 3 days where is really blew hard. He was using a CQR. I had about 25-30m of chain out and was using an old climbing rope as a snubber. Lots of bass straight anchorages have poor holding ground so a good anchor is good insurance and helps to get a good night sleep, I also used an iphone app called "drag queen" to give a loud anchor alarm if the boat moved more than xx m from a certain point. I don't have a deck anchor locker on my MK1 so I use the bow roller to store the anchor and secure it tightly with ocki straps. over all I was very happy with the Manson Supreme.

Cheers
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Re: Anchor size for TopHat

Postby saintpeter » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:12 pm

Thanks all ! It looks like I should save up for a 10kg Rocna. But the $64 question is: will it fit in a Mk 2 anchor well. And yes, I am based in Queenscliff Harbour, but I really don't want the anchor on the bow roller.
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Re: Anchor size for TopHat

Postby Shaun » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:07 am

The Rocna 10kg doesn't fit in my anchor/chain locker. Its close but the lid is about 50mm from closing properly. As Steve said you could modify the recess or lid, and there is a good thread on this site of someone having done the mod' to the recess with looked like it worked well.
I keep the anchor in the cockpit lazarette, where it easily fits. Its a bit of a nuisance to shackle onto the end of the chain & adds about 10 mins to the process. But the anchor isn't overly heavy or awkward (like a hinged CQR) to man-handle along the side deck.
The newer Vulcan, without the roll bar may be an option, maybe it fits??
cheers
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Re: Anchor size for TopHat

Postby Tales » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:35 pm

Hey St Peter,

I have used Rocna with 100% success. Sets every time, automatic reset with tide/wind change and never drags. Everyone I know who has one says the same.

They have a nice video http://rocna.cmpgroup.net/film which also shows their newer design (Vulcan) which doesn't have a roll bar so may be an easier fit in your anchor locker. Sizing guide http://rocna.cmpgroup.net/anchor-sizing-guide

Interestingly the Vulcan looks very much like the Spade which also has an incredible reputation. Pretty sure I saw one in Four Winds Marine Geelong.

In 2004 when I was looking for an anchor for my Top Hat, I searched the web for ages and finally imported 4 kg Oceane from Jersey. It would be similar fluke area to the 6kg Vulcan and fitted nicely in the anchor locker. The Oceane was a cheaper offering from Spade and was replaced with the slightly redesigned Sword. Not sure if Sword is still available.

I have not used my Oceane in stronger wind than 30 knots but it was just as reliable as the Rocna during 11 years of use.
One time I had a Mottle 33 tied up to the stern of my Top Hat off Port Melbourne in gusty wind and the Oceane just buried itself deeper and took some patience to get out later.
I did not sell it with my Top Hat but had it re-galvanized and now use it as a lunch pick for my S&S34.

In regard to tackle, I had 25 feet of 8mm short link chain with a proof tested shackle and 50 meters of 16mm nylon 3 strand rope. I always use a piece of plastic tube slipped over the rope and taped on to protect it from chafe from the cheeks of the bow roller.

See you around Queenscliff sometime,

Tom.
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