Cabin flex
Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:50 amFrom: adambee (Original Message) Sent: 1/08/2007 4:00 AM
Hi all
looking at top hats as I like their coastal capabilities. I haveonly sailed on one as a kid around pittwater and hope maybe you guys could help with a few tips
Climbed on a mk1 and found towards the centre of the cabin flexing below the boom area
is this normal for mk1"s ?
Also looked at a Mk11A and noticed very slight movement under a heavy foot just in front of the mast between the steel mast plate and front hatch, probably closer to the hatch. The flex was I guess about 3mm, steel mast step seems ok some surface rust. I couldn't notice any stress fractures or cracks in gelcoat on cabin roof or sign of any movement under mast inside of the cabin.
Is this normal for top hats or maybe a soft spot ? in a critical place ?
I thought would get some advice before forking out on a slip & inspection
Cheers Adam
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Recommend Message 2 of 6 in Discussion
From: Rob Sent: 1/08/2007 5:27 AM
Hi Adam
My MkII does not seem to flex in the places you have mentioned. This would
seem to be somewhat abnormal, but given that there are no visible cracks,
may not be structurally critical. However I'd rely on a professional
surveyor's report just in case... The flexing may be due to thinner glass
being laid during construction.
Good luck with your future purchase - the Top Hats are indeed great little
coastal voyagers!
Regards
Rob (Isabella II, Salt Pan Cove, Newport)
_________________________________________________________________
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Reply
Recommend Message 3 of 6 in Discussion
From: ArkingCrow Sent: 1/08/2007 7:34 PM
Hi there Adam
I have recently purchased a Top Hat Mk1 and have also noticed that the cabin roof flexes below the boom. Looking at the amount of or lack of webbing in the cabin ceiling, this doesn't surprise me. I am thinking of reinforcing this area with some double bias or narrow strips of ply glassed in under the ceiling with epoxy resin.
Otherwise, the construction is very solid. It is well reinforced under the deck and the hull is very solid except for just under the turn of the bilge where the flat bit appears as the hull turns down towards the keel. I thumped there with my fist and detected some slight movement on both sides but again, if this is an issue, could be easily rectified.
Topsides etc are extremely solid and I would expect this to be the case for all Top Hats.
Presently, I am having its motor rebuilt (12hp Sole diesel) and when this is completed I will be making the trip back to Tassie.
Cheers
Austin
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Recommend Message 4 of 6 in Discussion
From: nswsailor Sent: 2/08/2007 6:14 AM
Hi Austin, Adam and Rob.
I also have a Mk 1 and while the cabin top does have some flex remmber that the Mk 1's are all around 30 years old and I have not heard anybody mention that this has been a problem. However I was awear that some 2s and 3s have flexing problems around the base of the handrail stanchions, a problem the 1s dont have.
Unless there is a problem of cracking in the underlying fibreglass just get out there and sail!
Phillip
SEAKA
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Recommend Message 5 of 6 in Discussion
From: BigLofty4 Sent: 3/08/2007 6:37 AM
Adam,
One possibility is that water has penetrated between the upper and lower layers of glass and rotted the ply between. You find the same thing in the foredeck of the older Hood 23s - spongey. I had the problem in my Brolga 33, and we removed the top layer of glass to find a mushy porridge of rotting plywood underneath . We removed the porridge and replaced it with a layer of hard foam, then glassed the cabin top back on. Time consuming and not cheap, but you get a nice hard deck. I can send you photos of the process if you like. Unlike the Brolga, the Top Hat mast is stepped on deck, so if you are planning any extended offshore work, it might be prudent to consult a good shipwright on the matter. However, if you are just going to sail around Pittwater, maybe Phil's advice is worth taking - just get out there and sail!
Cheers
Cyril
-------------------
Reply
Recommend Message 6 of 6 in Discussion
From: nswsailor Sent: 3/08/2007 6:41 PM
AHHH-
-
I think you will find that the only structural timber in a Top Hat is in the internal bulkheads-
I recently removed a solar panel from the cabin roof and fibre glassed up the fixing holes-
No sign of any plywood-
-
Phillip -
SV SEAKA-
-
-
Hi all
looking at top hats as I like their coastal capabilities. I haveonly sailed on one as a kid around pittwater and hope maybe you guys could help with a few tips
Climbed on a mk1 and found towards the centre of the cabin flexing below the boom area
is this normal for mk1"s ?
Also looked at a Mk11A and noticed very slight movement under a heavy foot just in front of the mast between the steel mast plate and front hatch, probably closer to the hatch. The flex was I guess about 3mm, steel mast step seems ok some surface rust. I couldn't notice any stress fractures or cracks in gelcoat on cabin roof or sign of any movement under mast inside of the cabin.
Is this normal for top hats or maybe a soft spot ? in a critical place ?
I thought would get some advice before forking out on a slip & inspection
Cheers Adam
----------------------
Reply
Recommend Message 2 of 6 in Discussion
From: Rob Sent: 1/08/2007 5:27 AM
Hi Adam
My MkII does not seem to flex in the places you have mentioned. This would
seem to be somewhat abnormal, but given that there are no visible cracks,
may not be structurally critical. However I'd rely on a professional
surveyor's report just in case... The flexing may be due to thinner glass
being laid during construction.
Good luck with your future purchase - the Top Hats are indeed great little
coastal voyagers!
Regards
Rob (Isabella II, Salt Pan Cove, Newport)
_________________________________________________________________
------------
Reply
Recommend Message 3 of 6 in Discussion
From: ArkingCrow Sent: 1/08/2007 7:34 PM
Hi there Adam
I have recently purchased a Top Hat Mk1 and have also noticed that the cabin roof flexes below the boom. Looking at the amount of or lack of webbing in the cabin ceiling, this doesn't surprise me. I am thinking of reinforcing this area with some double bias or narrow strips of ply glassed in under the ceiling with epoxy resin.
Otherwise, the construction is very solid. It is well reinforced under the deck and the hull is very solid except for just under the turn of the bilge where the flat bit appears as the hull turns down towards the keel. I thumped there with my fist and detected some slight movement on both sides but again, if this is an issue, could be easily rectified.
Topsides etc are extremely solid and I would expect this to be the case for all Top Hats.
Presently, I am having its motor rebuilt (12hp Sole diesel) and when this is completed I will be making the trip back to Tassie.
Cheers
Austin
----------------------------
Reply
Recommend Message 4 of 6 in Discussion
From: nswsailor Sent: 2/08/2007 6:14 AM
Hi Austin, Adam and Rob.
I also have a Mk 1 and while the cabin top does have some flex remmber that the Mk 1's are all around 30 years old and I have not heard anybody mention that this has been a problem. However I was awear that some 2s and 3s have flexing problems around the base of the handrail stanchions, a problem the 1s dont have.
Unless there is a problem of cracking in the underlying fibreglass just get out there and sail!
Phillip
SEAKA
--------------------------
Reply
Recommend Message 5 of 6 in Discussion
From: BigLofty4 Sent: 3/08/2007 6:37 AM
Adam,
One possibility is that water has penetrated between the upper and lower layers of glass and rotted the ply between. You find the same thing in the foredeck of the older Hood 23s - spongey. I had the problem in my Brolga 33, and we removed the top layer of glass to find a mushy porridge of rotting plywood underneath . We removed the porridge and replaced it with a layer of hard foam, then glassed the cabin top back on. Time consuming and not cheap, but you get a nice hard deck. I can send you photos of the process if you like. Unlike the Brolga, the Top Hat mast is stepped on deck, so if you are planning any extended offshore work, it might be prudent to consult a good shipwright on the matter. However, if you are just going to sail around Pittwater, maybe Phil's advice is worth taking - just get out there and sail!
Cheers
Cyril
-------------------
Reply
Recommend Message 6 of 6 in Discussion
From: nswsailor Sent: 3/08/2007 6:41 PM
AHHH-
-
I think you will find that the only structural timber in a Top Hat is in the internal bulkheads-
I recently removed a solar panel from the cabin roof and fibre glassed up the fixing holes-
No sign of any plywood-
-
Phillip -
SV SEAKA-
-
-