Hi All-
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I have finally managed to join the group after having some problems with my Windows Live ID (thanks Cyril for your reply). After converting from a .NET Passport to a Windows Live ID, I was just getting a lot of blank pages when trying to "join", "login", or other such things around most of the MSN sites. Solution . . . I updated some of my details in my Windows Live ID profile. Hope this might help anyone else having similar difficulties with joining
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My partner and I are currently boatless, but are in the process of looking for a Top Hat to buy. At the moment we are very interested in one in the harbour and will have another closer look when we get back from a short holiday sailing around <st1:place><st1:PlaceName>Morton</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceName>Bay</st1:PlaceName></st1:place> in a friend's 50’ catamaran. (a good experience but a bit out of our league at the moment !!)<o:p></o:p>
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As a newbie to this sort of sailing, (I sailed an old Moth as a kid and lately a Hobie 16), I have a bunch of probably dumb questions. I have read most of the articles on the site as well as “Fix It And Sail”, “Your First Sail Boat”, “Inspecting The Aging Sailboat”, and the “New Complete Sailing Manual”, and am now armed with LOTS of useful info, but there are still a few things I haven't come across. So here goes . . . please forgive the rambling, and any replies will be greatly appreciated . . . :<o:p></o:p>
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Question 1 : If I find a boat I like, and it desperately needs an antifoul (which most of them do), does that make it difficult for the surveyor to check for osmosis, and any other hull problems ?? If so what is normally done ??<o:p></o:p>
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Question 2 : I've read the articles about fixing rudders that fill up with water. Is this a problem that should be especially looked out for in a Top Hat and should it be attended to ASAP, or does it just "add ballast" as one broker has told me -
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Question 3 : We have already seen a variety of mast step (is it called the tabernacle ?) configurations. From a beautiful Mk I with a nice new stainless steel step, a soggy MK III with a rusting iron one, to a poor old Mk II with a hodge podge of bolts and glassed in bit of wood desperately trying to recover from leaks and what I guess to be compression problems. The boat we like does have “some” rust on the leading edge of the step. We’ve been told that it can easily be ground back and hit with some rust converter, but this sounds a bit dodgy. So the question(s) is(are) : How drastic is a rusty step ? Are stainless steps a good idea ? How much is one likely to cost a) in itself and b) to fit ?? Are my partner’s fears of the mast collapsing justified ??
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Question 4 : If we end up finding our dream boat in the harbour, getting it home to Port Hacking will be an adventure. As I’ve said, I’ve really only sailed the Hobie 16, and although spending a lot of her life around boats in general, she hasn’t sailed much herself either. We’ve been out on a friend’s Hood 23 for a twilight sail and I’m thinking “yeah I can do this”. But even if we are careful and prepared, sailing out through the heads and doing the 20 odd nm to Port Hacking is . . . . you fill in the words !! Are we bighting off more than we can chew ? Should we spend a couple of weekends after buying the boat practicing around the harbour first ? (although there are mooring issues here !!) Does sailing out through the heads really fit the boogieman image I have in my head ?? (childhood memories of the Manly ferry on a rough day !!) Or, if we get the right conditions, is it a piece of cake ?? . . . “just keep <st1:country-region><st1:place>Australia</st1:place></st1:country-region> on your right” !! ?? Would anyone experienced in this area like to accompany us, just for the fun of it ??
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What else . . . mmm . . . I’ve got questions about painting the inside of the hull, gas stoves, heads, holding tanks, has anyone tried to fit one ?? But I guess they can wait until I actually have one . . . J
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Thank you in advance for any replies, which will be greatly appreciated. It will be good to get some advice and opinion from someone who is NOT trying to sell me something.
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With Kind regards to ALL,
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Greg McAdam
(“Boatless”)
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Reply
Recommend Message 2 of 8 in Discussion
From: Rob Sent: 21/03/2007 7:17 PM
Hi Greg
Welcome to the world of Top Hats!
To answer some of your questions:
1. It will be hard to detect the extent of (any) osmosis without being able to see a clean hull. Always expect some in a boat of that age - but if it hasn't been kept in good condition, osmosis could be a pricey thing to fix - factor it into the price!
3. Mast step rust is a problem in Top Hats due to lack of maintenance (based on my observations around Pittwater of many Top Hats!). The rust you describe on the leading edge of the step shouldn't be a problem - but treat it ASAP before it spreads and weakens the set up.
4. Practise around the harbour and get to know the routine in windy conditions - i.e. sail set-up, motor reliability, safety gear, lights, battery, radio, lifejackets, bilge pump, flares before going offshore. Once you're out there, it's easier than the harbour - nicer waves, less traffic etc - just don't do your trip in a southerly blow! (You'll be safe but not comfy!).
5. Get a nice GPS as they are very handy (Garmin + mapsource is what I have used for boating and 4WD for over ten years now).
Cheers and good luck
Rob (Isabella II)
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10 Students. 1 Winner. You Decide
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Reply
Recommend Message 3 of 8 in Discussion
From: reefka Sent: 31/03/2007 4:46 PM
Hi Greg,
I went through a very similar experience some 9 months ago before buying my first yacht... having always sailed and been around dinghies and yachts, but never in a 'skipper' role...
here's some of teh advice that was given to me and lessons learnt:
1. Mark I's generally have little if any osmosis problems, mark II's and III's tend to have a lot more issues.
2. the rudder filling up with water can be a problem as can any significant play in the rudder... this is smoewhat difficult to explain in writing, but I'm told it's a fairly involved job to remove the rudder as you have to hoist the boat really high to get enough clearance to remove the rudder - and if there's too much play in the rudder moving up and down, i ahve been told it can fall off!!!!
3. My boat also has the mast step rust problem - i too have been told by the surveyor and other boat owners taht rust converter and regular inspection/maintenance should keep things trouble free. In fact it's a job for today for me!!!
4. I bought 'Wigwam' in Pittwater and sailed her down to Sydney... a few lessons learned there:
- as previously mentioned by Rob, pick favourable weather - we had 2 false starts and eventually when we sailed down (2 of us) in 15-18 knots of breeze on a sunny day it was easy and fun.
- The GPS was great reassurance in terms of peace of mind
- Get away early, even if it means motoring initally until the wind gets up, life is a lot easier on a boat when you have daylight!!!
- When i bought Wigwam I asked the seller if I could pay to use their mooring for 6-8 weeks to which they agreed. this allowed me to take the boat out on pittwater to get used to her. If this is not possible, you can get short term private moorings in sydney (not cheap at $400/month) at rose bay marina - this includes Free transport to and from your boat during daylight hours.
- get a good surveyor that knows Top Hats.
- enjoy!!!
Gavin
'Wigwam'
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Reply
Recommend Message 4 of 8 in Discussion
From: Meander21 Sent: 1/04/2007 5:05 AM
Hi Gavin,
How long did it take for you to sail from Pittwater to Sydney. I realise it depends upon winds conditions etc but maybe you can give me an indication. This is something I wish to try.
Thanks,
Bryce
Meander 2
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Reply
Recommend Message 5 of 8 in Discussion
From: reefka Sent: 1/04/2007 6:48 PM
Hi Bryce,
We left newport at 7:00 am and arrived in Rose bay just before 4:00pm - so 9 hours - actual distance travelled was 29 NM so we averaged about 3.2 knots of boat speed - this did include some light wind at the beginning and the end of our journey. When we were in the 15knot range we were averaging 4-5 knots of boat speed. As you can see by the wind data below we had every imaginable wind direction, we also knew the southerly was coming, so we used the NW early to head out to sea for about 5-8 miles and then simply tacked and pointed ourselves at Sydney heads... we got lucky!!! We also used the engine for about an hour between 8-9 as the wind was virtually non existant.
In terms of working out what the wind is doing, I have www.seabreeze.com.au setup on my mobile phone - this is great in terms of knowing exactly what the wind is doing north and south of where you are.
Go for it - pretty good feeling when you sail back into the heads having done it!!!
Gavin
PS. Look out for reefs off Long reef - it's pretty much the only real obstacle, especially at night...
PPS Also good idea to check in with the local coastguard as you leave pittwater, although they were asleep when we were leaving - i think they wake up at 9...
07:00am N 13 14
07:30am NNW 12 14
08:00am NW 6 8
08:30am WNW 4 6
08:59am S 15 19
09:00am S 16 18
09:30am S 12 16
10:00am S 12 14
10:30am S 11 14
11:00am S 11 12
11:30am S 14 17
12:00pm S 15 17
12:30pm S 16 18
01:00pm SSE 14 16
01:30pm SSE 11 13
02:00pm SSE 9 10
02:30pm SE 7 9
03:00pm ESE 5 6
03:30pm NE 5 7
04:00pm NE 2 5
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Reply
Recommend Message 6 of 8 in Discussion
From: Meander21 Sent: 3/04/2007 8:23 PM
Hi Gavin,
Thanks for the very useful information - I'm looking forward to my first
venture to Sydney.
You say to be wary of the reefs off Long Reef beach. Do these extend
very far out to sea?
Thanks,
Bryce
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Reply
Recommend Message 7 of 8 in Discussion
From: reefka Sent: 6/04/2007 5:37 PM
Hi Bryce,
The "shallow" waters extend about a mile at most from long reef headland. I'm told that the danger is not so much in hitting the reefs as it is the dangerous seas that can form in the area.
Also if you're hugging the coast, it can be very tempting to 'cut the corner' rather than going around the shallower waters.
A good GPS should give you peace of mind.
Cheers
Gavin
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Reply
Recommend Message 8 of 8 in Discussion
From: Rob Sent: 6/04/2007 9:05 PM
Hi Bryce
Another one to be aware of is Little Reef extending off the south end of Newport beach. It's fairly obvious, but again in rough conditions the shallow water, which extends to the northeast, can produce a steep wave unexpectedly. I keep a couple of hundred metres off around here. When the southerly current is running, keeping quite close in elsewhere seems to avoid the worst of it.
Cheers
Rob