Is the Top Hat 27 better than the 25?

[timc]

Firstly, well done to the many people contributing to this excellent website. As a former Mk 1 owner and current TH 27 owner, I would like to share my opinions on these yachts with other TH owners. Below are some initial thoughts intended to stimulate discussion. I'll follow up in more detail soon.

I'm also very keen to hear from those people who collated the background information on the 27 as I am yet to develop a full spec sheet for my yacht.

Lets start with the Mk 1. To my eye it is the sweetest and most balanced design of all the Top Hats. Yes, they're all gems but the Mk 1 just looks right. The stepped coachroof works well with the low freeboard, generous foredeck and moderate beam and it looks like a 'proper yacht' under sail. By comparison, the 27's broad roof and narrow side decks make the yacht look chunky, unresolved and not at all pretty. It is a much larger yacht in all respects with the wide and long cockpit being the most apparent external feature. Also unlike the Mk 1, the 27 has a very short foredeck due to the extended cabin and sloping forehatch. The wider cabin also means the 10 foot beam of the 27 is not that apparent because of the narrow side decks.

Aesthetics aside, what about performance? I'd have to say the 27 would be my preferred ride. I base this on the additional beam which is carried aft and which provides greater initial stability and stability off the wind. It also retains the upwind performance of the 25 due to its cut away fore foot and 3/4 keel. However, the 27 has that dampening you feel on larger yachts so by comparison it's a much smoother ride upwind and a little drier.

My previous Mk 1 'Georgie Girl' was a reliable, tough and slippery yacht in pretty much any sort of weather Moreton Bay could throw up. Similarly, I don't put my hand up for it, but I've sailed my TH 27 on Moreton Bay in 30-35 knot conditions on a couple of occasions and it lacks none of the heavy weather handling virtues found in the Mk 1. In fact, the extra beam means the 27 does not bury its rale so eagerly and it also seems to be a bit faster than the 25. Some others may have more information on these aspects of the boats.

I've run out of thoughts for now but I look forward to discussion on this - the TH 27 owners club is a pretty small one.

timc

'Tusk'

[Phillip]

Congratulations 'Tusk' on being the first to post on our new site.

The information I have been getting re the 27 has been coming from Merv Howlett (he was the second and last Top Hat salesman) who was involved in developing the 27. He actually commented to me that if Top hats every went back into production (which is a possibility) only the 27 should be produced as he said the same as you, its a better yacht! And yes its a small club, Merv said only 4 were produced.

Whats really needed is somebody to measure the lines of your 27 next time you go up on the slip. By the way the moulds are somewhere near you in QLD.

I have to agree with you, my Baker Mk 1 looks better than the other three.

Phillip
SEAKA

[timc]

Hi Phillip

I've noticed you're heavily involved in the site and seem to have a good knowledge of the yachts. I wish I had this resource some years back when I had my mk 1.

If you happen to chat to Merv in the future please hit him up re: his knowledge of the 27's. I just slipped mine so won'e be out of the water for another 12mths. I'll post some out of water shots soon, as well as few of my boat. I sail out of ManlyHarbour if any qld members are interested in the 27. I have spoken to Brett (owner of moulds) and we hope to meet at some stage so he can see the 27 in the water

By the way, I can't seem to access the uploaded photos from other members?

cheers
tim

[Phillip]

Evening Tim,

I am collecting questions for Merv as I have gather quiet a bit of info on Top Hats and where they come from, but I want to put it all past Merv before I publish in case he has additional information to full in the gaps I am finding. If you have any specific questions please post them.

Good to see that you have spoken to Brett, maybe the moulds can be measured.

Apart from the photos of the varies marks which Shaun has been uploading there are probably no member photos at this stage.

Phillip
SEAKA

[timc]

Afternon Phillip

A few questions for Merv thanks on the TH27 - a few you'll no doubt have:

displacement
ballast ratio
type of ballast
deck/hull types of layup.
LWL
Beam - I measured about 3m.
Draft - mine draws about 1.5m.
Design brief - I prefer the standard layout and tend to think the long galley in the 27 is wasted space. are all 4 the same?
4 were built - were they built equally? I understand there was a 'deluxe' and a 'demo'
Test sails - performance figures if known.

thanks

tc

[timc]

evening Phil

Might have lead readers astray with my list for merv to consiner. Beam of TH 27 is about 2.85 and not 3m as I mentioned least week.

Re: 25 and 27's, I went head to head with one today in only 10 knots (if that) he left me for dead. Also took on my mate in his Catalina 30 on the weekend in 10-13/15 and he was also too quick.

I revised my thoughts on the TH 25/27 comparison and I think it comes down to wind speed. At 15-20 (and bit for good measure) I back the 27 wind over each of these yachts - but any less is a nice romp for family outings but by no means adrenalin pumping.

Given the small readership of 27 owners I'd like to pose the question about engine type, installation and the ability to steer these beasts in reverse.

I have a Bukh DV 18 which I assume is original circa 1990. Massive prop walk to port and no steerage at all in astern as the shaft is also offset /angled to clear the rudder. The biggest area of interest is the prop being some 15 inches aft of the ridder blade.

Berthing and getting out is pretty was embarassing (now just bloody anoying) as I single hand 99% of the time and on lookers have no idea of the set up below the water. My club ( Wynumm Manly Yacht Club) is very friendly and the Marina tries to help with these sorts of problems

I'd be interested to hear from the other 3 mystery TH 27 owners about their set ups and means of overcoming these sorts of things - yes I've tried roping, I've tried springing off, I've tried walking off - it still just simply does what it wants in in asten.

thanks in advance


tc

[Phillip]

Evening Tim,

I'll certainly add those questions to the list for Merv.

I would be interested as to what fore sails you were both using, ie was the 25 using a racing genoa?

Phillip.
SEAKA

[timc]

G'Day Phillip

Should of mentioned we were both under about a 105 % only - no main and cruising sails only.

Would be an interesting little execise to have a round the island for a Bundy or good red (Barossa/Maclaren Vale of course) as someone has suggested.

I have (by my estimates) achieved a true 7-8 knots on a close reach in 25 -30 knots in ugly lumpy seas without a main which I am commisioning soon. The other TH 25 site subscribers have much more experience than me (I'm actually an upper hunter boy at heart) based on my reading to date - but my view after 10 years in the water is that speed is not a good measure of performance (except at the bar !). I reckon the ability to 'power up' , point high and stay powered up when the wind is 20 + on the nose the true measure of a yachts -performance. - that's what makes the TH so special !cheers

tc