Whats a Top Hat worth?
Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:10 pmFrom: bornfreee2 (Original Message) Sent: 02/08/2008 01:32
Hi guys I would like to start a discussion on the resale value of the tophat, I think one of the best features of this site is the ability of like minded people who know how good the design and sea keeping qualites of a tophat are. when you realise just how much a new tophat would cost to build its mind boggling how cheap this boat has become on the market so maybe for our own good we can use this site to create some enthusiasm for our great little boat
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From: Karl010203 Sent: 02/08/2008 02:17
Hi Bornfree
I think that timing has a lot to do with this at the moment... to be honest - and more a reflection of the uncertainity around at the moment... given rising mortages, fuel costs etc. All the papers in the last week or so have all been doom and gloom regarding retail figures, house prices etc... I think this is impacting most yacht sales at the moment...
To give you an example myself and my brother bought a tophat mk3, about 12 months ago, in average conditions (needed new motor and wiring) that was listed for $24k although we got it for under $20k, at the time that was a pretty good price (especially for QLD) and given I was not in NSW where there are a lot more - it was a good deal and what we were looking for. The only other option seriously considered was a project tophat which was down to $7k but scary and I backed out before the planned survey. It was bit too much of a challenge even for those dollars.
At that time I enquired about one other a mark 1, in good condition that was not negiotable at $22k. I didn't think this was worth it as it was a lot older and showing its age a little, and had no electronics... but still good buying for someone that just wanted to sail away. The owner held out, but in the last six months, I have seen it go from $21k, to $19 - $17, $14 and then it was listed for $10 and then offers... at this point I called again... not sure what I would have done with two tophats, but it had finally sold at I guessed around the $8k mark. You got to feel sorry for the seller he loved the boat.
So I think unfortunately for anyone selling at the moment you are going to have to either wait until thinks pick up or cut your losses. It will turn around... there are a couple of other forums I am on that are discussing the exact same thing.
It is insane to see some of the tophats listed on Yachthub at the moment for the cheap prices... the quality is amazing for the dollars.
Personally I would like to buy a cheap project one at the moment, so that I could sit it in my front yard and restore and refit it... if I can find one for $3 - 5 k I will. As long as the basics are ok. Anyone with a moored wreck get in touch
As we all know - and the reason we have all purchased them - there is no way you can buy a boat manufactured to the same standards today. It is not ecomonically viable... that amount of fiberglass would make a 40 footer these days. They are the most seaworthy boat in their size that I know off. Osmosis is not an issue. Etc. Whilst some of the cosmetics appeal in new boats of similiar size most of these are trailer sailers that I honestly would not feel comfortable in offshore.
Testimony to these great boats is the fact that when travelling and berthing at marinas you inevitably meet up with people who have had something to do with tophats and rave about them. I have never heard anything truly negative - aside from one person saying they had to replace chain plates before heading to Noumea!!
A lot of similiar boats in the states actually appreciate in value over time, but have seen declines in recent times. Obviously a lot of importers are going nuts bring boats in at the moment given our exchange rate and the smashed yacht market over there.
I would not sell at the moment, unless really desperate, I would consider long term storage on hard stand or transportation. Or a bloody big sailing trip
They are an awesome boat.
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Recommend Delete Message 3 of 8 in Discussion
From: bornfreee2 Sent: 02/08/2008 21:00
Hi karl I was on a web site the other night a link from a site called the oar club any way one of the discussions was why build when boats second hand are so cheap, and as a example he gave a link to a bloke in usa trying to sell a columbia 29 which is very similar to a compass 28 it had photos of the boat great fit out inboard diesel he needs to sell and says first with a check for $2500 will get it I thought real hard about going over and getting it they are a great boat
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Recommend Delete Message 4 of 8 in Discussion
From: Karl010203 Sent: 02/08/2008 21:06
I am with you on that one... I have been looking at a Westsail 32 in the states that they will accept $25k US for.
Frieght about $15k.
I wish I had the means and time to bring a large yacht from the states - and look to resell here...
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Recommend Delete Message 5 of 8 in Discussion
From: AurigaM3 Sent: 03/08/2008 00:50
I picked up my Mk3 about 4 months ago for $6k (asking price $11k) . Her interior needs a complete refurb and the rig (standing & running) needs to be redone (re-rig quoted at $2400 is this about right??)
The prepurchase survey was well worth the cash and gave us a good idea upfront of what we were in for and a nice though longish to-do list, we're happy with our progress to date.
Though im not refurbing her to make a profit, id be interested to see her potential value once we're done.
ta
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Recommend Delete Message 6 of 8 in Discussion
From: bornfreee2 Sent: 03/08/2008 19:57
if you take the old rigging wire in to them and they copy you will easy save $1000 shop around I got mine done down in sydney and paid $2400 have since seen other cruisers take their wire in themselves and save. wont get caught again you will have to take your mast down not matter what they say and that wont cost much you can get one of the mooring barges with a hyab to do it for about $80
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Recommend Delete Message 7 of 8 in Discussion
From: Karl010203 Sent: 04/08/2008 16:52
It would be nice to know what the standard lengths are actually... maybe if someone knows we could add this information on site... not sure how much, if any differences between the mks.
For anyone who has had anything to do with Endeavours will know that they have a blue book which outlines all the models, the setups and lots of great tips. Maybe we could compile something like this for and from the members of this group.
It also adds a lot of value to a yacht when there a strong association and lots of information.
Any thoughts?
Karl
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Recommend Delete Message 8 of 8 in Discussion
From: nswsailor Sent: 06/08/2008 03:31
Karl,
Can't agree more and we should also have a register such as the msn compass group has.
Phillip
SEAKA
Hi guys I would like to start a discussion on the resale value of the tophat, I think one of the best features of this site is the ability of like minded people who know how good the design and sea keeping qualites of a tophat are. when you realise just how much a new tophat would cost to build its mind boggling how cheap this boat has become on the market so maybe for our own good we can use this site to create some enthusiasm for our great little boat
--------------------------------------------------
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 2 of 8 in Discussion
From: Karl010203 Sent: 02/08/2008 02:17
Hi Bornfree
I think that timing has a lot to do with this at the moment... to be honest - and more a reflection of the uncertainity around at the moment... given rising mortages, fuel costs etc. All the papers in the last week or so have all been doom and gloom regarding retail figures, house prices etc... I think this is impacting most yacht sales at the moment...
To give you an example myself and my brother bought a tophat mk3, about 12 months ago, in average conditions (needed new motor and wiring) that was listed for $24k although we got it for under $20k, at the time that was a pretty good price (especially for QLD) and given I was not in NSW where there are a lot more - it was a good deal and what we were looking for. The only other option seriously considered was a project tophat which was down to $7k but scary and I backed out before the planned survey. It was bit too much of a challenge even for those dollars.
At that time I enquired about one other a mark 1, in good condition that was not negiotable at $22k. I didn't think this was worth it as it was a lot older and showing its age a little, and had no electronics... but still good buying for someone that just wanted to sail away. The owner held out, but in the last six months, I have seen it go from $21k, to $19 - $17, $14 and then it was listed for $10 and then offers... at this point I called again... not sure what I would have done with two tophats, but it had finally sold at I guessed around the $8k mark. You got to feel sorry for the seller he loved the boat.
So I think unfortunately for anyone selling at the moment you are going to have to either wait until thinks pick up or cut your losses. It will turn around... there are a couple of other forums I am on that are discussing the exact same thing.
It is insane to see some of the tophats listed on Yachthub at the moment for the cheap prices... the quality is amazing for the dollars.
Personally I would like to buy a cheap project one at the moment, so that I could sit it in my front yard and restore and refit it... if I can find one for $3 - 5 k I will. As long as the basics are ok. Anyone with a moored wreck get in touch
As we all know - and the reason we have all purchased them - there is no way you can buy a boat manufactured to the same standards today. It is not ecomonically viable... that amount of fiberglass would make a 40 footer these days. They are the most seaworthy boat in their size that I know off. Osmosis is not an issue. Etc. Whilst some of the cosmetics appeal in new boats of similiar size most of these are trailer sailers that I honestly would not feel comfortable in offshore.
Testimony to these great boats is the fact that when travelling and berthing at marinas you inevitably meet up with people who have had something to do with tophats and rave about them. I have never heard anything truly negative - aside from one person saying they had to replace chain plates before heading to Noumea!!
A lot of similiar boats in the states actually appreciate in value over time, but have seen declines in recent times. Obviously a lot of importers are going nuts bring boats in at the moment given our exchange rate and the smashed yacht market over there.
I would not sell at the moment, unless really desperate, I would consider long term storage on hard stand or transportation. Or a bloody big sailing trip
They are an awesome boat.
----------------------------------
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 3 of 8 in Discussion
From: bornfreee2 Sent: 02/08/2008 21:00
Hi karl I was on a web site the other night a link from a site called the oar club any way one of the discussions was why build when boats second hand are so cheap, and as a example he gave a link to a bloke in usa trying to sell a columbia 29 which is very similar to a compass 28 it had photos of the boat great fit out inboard diesel he needs to sell and says first with a check for $2500 will get it I thought real hard about going over and getting it they are a great boat
------------------------------------
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 4 of 8 in Discussion
From: Karl010203 Sent: 02/08/2008 21:06
I am with you on that one... I have been looking at a Westsail 32 in the states that they will accept $25k US for.
Frieght about $15k.
I wish I had the means and time to bring a large yacht from the states - and look to resell here...
------------------------------------
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 5 of 8 in Discussion
From: AurigaM3 Sent: 03/08/2008 00:50
I picked up my Mk3 about 4 months ago for $6k (asking price $11k) . Her interior needs a complete refurb and the rig (standing & running) needs to be redone (re-rig quoted at $2400 is this about right??)
The prepurchase survey was well worth the cash and gave us a good idea upfront of what we were in for and a nice though longish to-do list, we're happy with our progress to date.
Though im not refurbing her to make a profit, id be interested to see her potential value once we're done.
ta
------------------------------------
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 6 of 8 in Discussion
From: bornfreee2 Sent: 03/08/2008 19:57
if you take the old rigging wire in to them and they copy you will easy save $1000 shop around I got mine done down in sydney and paid $2400 have since seen other cruisers take their wire in themselves and save. wont get caught again you will have to take your mast down not matter what they say and that wont cost much you can get one of the mooring barges with a hyab to do it for about $80
-------------------------------------
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 7 of 8 in Discussion
From: Karl010203 Sent: 04/08/2008 16:52
It would be nice to know what the standard lengths are actually... maybe if someone knows we could add this information on site... not sure how much, if any differences between the mks.
For anyone who has had anything to do with Endeavours will know that they have a blue book which outlines all the models, the setups and lots of great tips. Maybe we could compile something like this for and from the members of this group.
It also adds a lot of value to a yacht when there a strong association and lots of information.
Any thoughts?
Karl
-----------------------------
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 8 of 8 in Discussion
From: nswsailor Sent: 06/08/2008 03:31
Karl,
Can't agree more and we should also have a register such as the msn compass group has.
Phillip
SEAKA