Mark 1 v Mark 2 hull?

[TimothyH]

Hi Phillip

I live between Bathurst and Orange, Central West, and currently have a Careel trailer sailer but no water! Most of the larger dams in the area have not been navigable for 3+ years and the recent rain has only brought them up marinally...hence looking for something moored to drive to and go sailing!

Cheers
Tim

[Phillip]

Hi Tim,

Ok, looks like you need a weekend in Sydney or the Lake Macquarie area.

If any members can help Tim by providing a look at their Top Hat may I suggest you send
him a private e-mail ( see right han side of posts) to arrange a visit.

Phillip
SEAKA

[Shaun]

Welcome Tim,
What sailing aspirations do you have?
I'd take it on a boat by boat approach, look for the inclusions that you like.
General opinion is the Baker built(maybe someone can remind us what this means??) Mk1's are considered a stronger hull, but all the Top Hat Mk's will get the job done!
Mk1's have sailed around the world & Mk3's have happily sailed around the Pacific to Canada & beyond.
Its the design that is critical & all the MK's have it!

Have you considered getting a safe storage place for the Careel at Penrith or Richmond etc, you dont have to tow over the Mountains & can take it home occasionally or over winter for maintenance.
cheers
Shaun

[bearmcnally]

Hi Fellow Top Hatters,


Baker built boats back in the 70's were and still are considered to be the best for that era.Bluebirds,Brolgas etc and of coarse the MkI Top Hat.Mainly because Mark was passionate about his work and all his yachts were hand laid mainly because the modern day guns weren't avaliable.We must also remember Swanson Bros for example also hand laid their early yachts,and when the guns were introduced they gunned their yachts but hand rolled in between layers.We must also take into account early fibreglass yachts were over built by todays standards because this was a new product and nobody really knew what the fibreglass structural values were Janzoon II is a good example.Nowdays we understand fibreglass and how to use it.It is now possible to build modern day yachts lighter and stronger [not sure about modern designs when you look at 1963 quarter tonner compared to a 2010 quarter tonner]In my opion it comes down to what coachouse you like and the age of the yacht.

Regards Bear

[Phillip]

Hi All,

Sometimes history will catch up with those who weren't there.

Today I learnt that Baker did in fact use chopper guns, but where others used them with one operator Baker used two. The other workers job was to watch that the catalyst was being supplied to the gun, this was done by watching the vacuum gauge. Now I don't know if any mark 1's were built with a chopper gun but his later boats almost certainly were. I do not have a date for when he started using chopper guns.

Also today I learnt (became a bit of a habit today ) that Baker SOLD the Top Hat moulds to Formit in Wyong. My informant also said that if Baker built the male timber mould, and not used someone else's timber Top Hat, there will be a timber Top Hat out there somewhere that was built by Baker. All the fibreglass boat builders did this at that time as the cost to complete the timber boat was very little and money was generally tight in the industry. The question is, where is that yacht?

Baker went on to build various yachts, some of which did very well in the Sydney Hobart races around 1970 and later. More later.

This information came from a contemporary of Baker who was also building fibreglass yachts and who in fact admitted that Baker had helped him to get started in the business. Baker, it would seem, was very generous with information on the use of fibreglass to build boat.

Phillip
SEAKA.

[SeaLady]

I have a Mark II an d Keith has a Mark I both will be in Tarban Creek soon. As soon as I sail mine down from the Hawkesbury. Missed the window of opportunity last weekend and now this weekend is Fathers Day.
Anyone want to come for a sail?

Diana

[Miker]

Tim, you could always moor the Careel! It's been done before.

If you want to see some Top Hats all close together, there are at least three in Careel Bay, Pittwater. Mine is a Mark III with the "race plan" layout - no seperate head, just a pottie under the v-berth and an open plan towards the quarter berths. I know of two more that are Mark II in Careel. Just around the corner along the Clareville shore there are at least 6 that I remember of all different Marks. Including the one that was featured in the Trans Tasman Solo race article that appears somewhere here.

We're also having the regatta at the HRYC in November, a great chance to see just how diverse the set ups can be.

Send me a PM if you're interested in looking over Dulcamara.

Michael

[SeaLady]

Shaun, I got your private message but can't seem to reply to it.

Can you email me at sealady@live.com.au

[davet]

in reply to Phillips post he well informed re the laminating of Baker Top Hats by both full hand lay-up i.e using CSM and applying resin by bucket and the use of chopper guns.
Geoff Baker brought a Robinson chopper gun in early 1972 and from then on ALL Baker built boats except the Olympic class Tempest were manufactured with a chopper gun, also he is correct that it was a 2 man operation as the Robinson gun unlike later guns ( Binks etc) was notorious in allowing the catalyst flow to vary considerably during operation.
With regard to the timber mould that would certainly be Geoffs style as we did the same for both the Brolga and the Currawong, however that would have been well before 1967 when I joined Fiberglass Yachts
With regard to Geoff's success as a sailor he had won a place in the 1956 MelbourOlympics but was refused as he was a boat builder and therefore a professional and wasn't allowed to compete.
Also the Boomerang VII launched in Nov 1992 entered the Sydney to Hobart that year [the first foam sandwich boat built in Australia] and came 25th over the line and Granny Smith a Currawong came 33rd

[Tales]

I have had a bit of luck lately in that I have made the aquaintance of Norm Baker, Geoff's brother. It was he who drew up the Mk II cabin roof for Geoff.

When I asked Norm about Geoff's circumnavigation he wrote the following:-

"The boat was called Boomerang VII which was an Illingworth designed 23 ft.Tiger V design.Geoff took a female mould off a wooden Tiger then we then hand layed up the outer skin of the hull in our back yard in Brighton in 1961/2. We then formed a 50 mm core of Polyurethane foam bonded to the inside to the inside of the outer skin using the "bucket and chucket " method. The inner skin of the hull was then layed up over the planed down foam core , thus creating the first foam cared sandwich hull in Oz to the best of my knowledge.
Geoff and his wife Lois departed Brighton late 1961 and circumnavigated Oz anticlockwise returning home in Feb 1963 .At that time it was the smallest yacht ever to achieve this."

I am gradually obtaining more information so perhaps we should get our heads together sometime.

All the best,

Tom