Collision Bulkheads

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Re: Collision Bulkheads

Postby storm petrel » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:33 am

If you hit something hard enough to hole a Top Hat at sea, like a submerged shipping container I suspect it would not only hole the front locker area but more likey hole the region in front of the keel or tear along the side below the waterline. I agree with Phillip and Bear that this is a strange discussion. As I said above, if you are genuinely worried about hitting something huge(about as likely as being eaten by a shark while swimming) then you should get a life raft and make sure you have a good EPIRB and waterproof communication system or two. If you don't like liferafts and want to make the mothership unsinkable then you need to think about a different style of boat. Finally, why would you you seal off all that useful storage space in a Top Hat just to give you a 30 seconds more time to launch your life raft in the very unlikely event of a catastrophic collision.
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Re: Collision Bulkheads

Postby Shaun » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:11 pm

Ive got plenty of storage on BM, she has been/& is being set up for single-handing, doubt i'll ever have the need to carry a couple of crew & four eskys ;) onboard, when the kids get older & I can hopefully get them cruising with me, we'll have to look at the storage again then.

So thats only 1.25m3 of floatation then to compensate for the lead, there would be close to that im guessing under the V-berth. I might do the experiment with a 1.5kg object like a brick or whatever tied to a 1.25lt & see if it can keep it from sinking (might get a prize from Dr Karl :D )


Phillip wrote:

The Top Hats that I know of that have come to grief have ALL run UP onto the HARD STUFF where they didn't SINK but came to grief with the rocks!!
I agree but this scenario is within our control, & would only happen if the skipper stuffs up

Phillip wrote:The volume needed to stop a Top Hat sinking is about that of the volume of the main cabin, so where the hell are you going to find THAT!
Is that from a calculation or a wild guess?

Phillip wrote:Design wise, if bulkheads were required in Top Hats Illingworth and Primrose would have included one in the design.

They didn't, so lets go onto something else.
Come on....you love tinkering around on Seaka!
Start up another discussion then, what will it be :?:

This is what weve got now, & I reckon its a brilliant topic.

horses for courses, I do aspire to cross an ocean, doubt I will ever have the courage or opportunity to actually do it, but the dream is there, pretty sure i'd pack a liferaft also, geez i'd be gutted if I needed to deploy it & then in all the excitment forgot to tie the painter off, then watched it blow away :cry:

cheers
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Re: Collision Bulkheads

Postby Jeremy » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:38 pm

Speaking of life rafts, does anyone actually have one on their top hat?

They are bulky and heavy, there aren't many places to fit one...


My opinion is that on the east coast of Australia there are so many container ships around that you are never really alone, hence my feeling is that if you have a the appropriate safety gear including VHF radio and an EPIRB, the risk of death is minimal even if you do abandon the boat (especially north where you can survive a day or two floating around).

That said I wouldn't like to try it.

I dont mean to offend, however...

Regarding the safety chambers and ballast.... sounds like overkill to me. If I wanted to seriously cruise a small yacht I would focus of reinforcing shroud anchorages, hull/deck joint, cabin and deck (have it strong enough to withstand a hit with a sledgehammer or a complete 360...), rudder shaft, bearings and fittings, upgraded rigging and maybe upgraded mast section (not applicable to a TH...),

After that, I would think about safety chambers and buoyancy for a minute, have a beer and forget about the idea...


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Re: Collision Bulkheads

Postby Shaun » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:46 pm

Gday Jeremy,
It maybe possible to lash a liferaft to the taffrail, or Phil on Seaka has made a board the joins each side of the rear of the cockpit seats, he has carried an inflatable dinghy there, or store it below, so theres a few possible spots.



Jeremy wrote:My opinion is that on the east coast of Australia there are so many container ships around that you are never really alone, hence my feeling is that if you have a the appropriate safety gear including VHF radio and an EPIRB, the risk of death is minimal even if you do abandon the boat (especially north where you can survive a day or two floating around).
You are alone out there!, You see very few container ships Nth of Seal Rocks. Hopefully the electronic devices that you remembered to grab in all the excitment work as advertised, Although the old trusty flares would be brilliant/even better if trying to flag down passing ships :)





Jeremy wrote:Regarding the safety chambers and ballast.... sounds like overkill to me. If I wanted to seriously cruise a small yacht I would focus of reinforcing shroud anchorages, hull/deck joint, cabin and deck (have it strong enough to withstand a hit with a sledgehammer or a complete 360...), rudder shaft, bearings and fittings, upgraded rigging and maybe upgraded mast section (not applicable to a TH...),

After that, I would think about safety chambers and buoyancy for a minute, have a beer and forget about the idea...


Jeremy
Ive ticked all your points(bar the deck/hull joint & sledge hammer test), I had an extra beer, thats why im still thinking about the collision bulkheads & bouyancy :lol:

cheers :P
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Re: Collision Bulkheads

Postby Phillip » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:09 pm

Gooo Jeremy,

You have it right mate :lol: .

If fact you are also correct about the container ships.

Now imagine this, you fall off a bulk coal tanker heading to New Castle and mind you that's some fall when they are empty.

Luckily you are seen to fall over board and the asian crew put out a mayday.
It tales MR Forster some time to actually get the Lat Long from the crew and while the Police & MR are getting organised
the crew of the bulk coal tanker find the missing crew man and RESCUE him.

Talk about LUCK :)

This apparently happened the week of 14th February this year, but I didn't see any report in the news about it.
I heard about it from a Ham mate of mine who was scanning 16 at the time and picked it all up.

So make sure you can get your EPIRB's etc if you have to step up from your boat cause you will be rescued if you use the EPIRB and flares etc.

There was a Top Hat [Mark 1 of course] that was sold in the last couple of years that had a liferaft, the deck was painted grey and came from the Sydney/Pittwater area I think.
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Re: Collision Bulkheads

Postby Wild Rose » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:17 pm

Hi all,

Thank you for all the input to my question. I was asking why other types of boats are required to have collision bulkheads for ocean racing. Not our little Top Hats.
I was trying to get my mind around the pratical application of why this rule is even there. As pointed out the amount of boyancy required to be a safety factor is huge.
Now if I was to use my TH as an ice breaker then all bets are off but I doubt I will be going Deeeeeeeep south.
Next question.. which Mk TH is best??? :)

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Re: Collision Bulkheads

Postby bearmcnally » Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:36 pm

Dear Greg

I said ? " The fore peak bulk head is a "basic crash bulkhead " not a "collision bulkhead " ?

It must have been another bloody full moon ?

Bear @#4%^!! ?
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Re: Collision Bulkheads

Postby Dolphin » Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:50 pm

Phillip I can't see the parallel to the situation with the bulkie and a top hat, or like Shaun are you dreaming?
The tanker probably hit the MOB (man overboard button) so they could have returned to the spot. (Probably instigated a Williamson Turn to boot.)
I heard about a bloke that hit the Swansea Bridge and the first thing he did was check his bilge for making water. If his lockers were watertight it was one less thing he had to attend to. Year I probably will have a beer and not do anything about it..
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Re: Collision Bulkheads

Postby Phillip » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:05 am

OOOOOH thats low Greg,

Bulkhead would not have mattered as I sort of slid past the bridge using the midship part of the hull.

Would have breached the cabin not the bow!

PS Thats what an EPIRB is for, just like the MOB button.
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Re: Collision Bulkheads

Postby Dolphin » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:30 am

I didn't mention who it was Phillip. :lol:
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